Beginner Checking For Case Separation

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khaines0625

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Total newbie here. I've been reading the Lyman manual and binging internet sources to learn how do this and am now looking to attempt my very first reload.

I bought some Hornady American Whitetail 117gr Interlock for my .25-06 and shot 40 rounds or so and kept the brass to reload. Today I laid the brass out to inspect it. I had incorrectly assumed that the brass would certainly be fine since it only been shot the one time from the manufacturers load. In one case, there is a distinct crack in the brass and it appears to certainly be garbage. There are others that may need tossed out but it is tough for a beginning to tell what is actual incipient head separation and what's normal discoloration.

  1. I'm beginning to think I'm crazy in thinking that most of these are toast. The change in glossiness that occurs near the base must not be case separation. Do many of these appear to bad?
  2. Is it normal for once shot brass to have at least one separation failure like this? I had thought this would not happen for multiple firings. What are the best manufactures for brass life?
 

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It's a used gun I recently bought. 2019 Weatherby Vanguard. Appears to be in decent condition from what I can tell. Do old guns wear out brass more quickly?
 
Sharpen a straightened out paper clip then bend the tip at an angle that allows you to fit the homemade pick through the case mouth and scratch the inside of the broken cartridge case where it's cracked.

OK now when the pick passes over the damage the interior it will provide a feedback, you will feel a certain type of bumpiness or little ridges.

Now just check the rest of the brass with the pick and see if any of the rest of them feel the same way that the broken one does.

That is concerning for once fired brass.
 
No old guns don't wear brass out faster. If it was a new gun it may have a headspace issue. I would send hornady a picture. Do you have a way of telling how much the brass grew in length?
 
I did not measure that particular piece of brass before it was shot but I did compare one unfired round(of the same ammo) to some of the fired rounds. The unfired rounds brass length was 2.484" (The precise number in the lyman manual for trim to length!) and the brass with the crack in it was 2.505". Others were in a similar ~2.505" category.
 
I tried the paper clip trick, pretty neat. The prominently cracked piece I could definitely feel bumps on. Another with a prominent discolored ring I could as well.
 
Well, I don't think I could directly contact the previous owner as it went through the store. What are you trying to get at by doing a chamber casting?
 
That could be the reason he got rid of it. It may of had a headspace issue from new. You could try some other ammo and see if it grows that much. The best place to measure would be from the case shoulder to the head if you have the right tools. Show the case to the store.
 
Can you please post a picture of the primers? Is there any difference between the primers from the failed cartridges versus the primers from the cartridges that are okay?
 
Wow... this is very interesting. The primer to the right is the one with the bad crack. It looks like what the Lyman manual said is a sign of a load running with too high of pressure. Could it be possible that Hornady messed up? The sticker seal was still on the box. Some other reason?
 

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Please contact hornaday ask them THIS QUESTION... "Is any record of a pattern failure with that particular lot of ammunition?"

They may be interested in knowing this information and photographs from this thread.

Did they all ignite on the first strike?
 
Headspace is a technical term that applies to the firearm. It is about a length from the breach face to some feature in the chamber that limits the depth the cartridge cab enter the chamber. It can be a rim,or a belt,or the case mouth.
With your 25-06,its the case shoulder.The term "Headspace" applies to the specs that exist in the gun.
A gunsmith will have gauges that he can use to check your "Headspace"

That would be step #1.

Technical term #2. "Head Clearance" Its the space a cartridge has to float ,longitudaly . To the rear is the breech face. Forward is the chamber shoulder.
The firing pin strike drives the case forward to the chamber shoulder. Chamber pressure expands the case and it grips the chamber walls. Then the pressure will stretch the case till it meets the breech face.

The stretch thins the brass case ,generally at the mouth of the chamber.

You are getting too much stretch.

Which means this gun/ammo had too much "Head Clearance"

The root cause can be the rifle may have excessive "headspace" Gunsmith issue or return to seller.

Or it could be the ammo was short in length . The gun might be fine. Short ammo will have too much "Head Clearance"
A trip to your gunsmith with your fired brass and ammo should identify the problem.

One way to check the ammo is with a "Wilson Cartridge Headspace Bushing Gauge" These are about$30 . Its not the only way. I find them useful handloading.
 
A gunsmith should have a 30-06 set of chamber gauges. The 30-06 gauges work fine for 25-06. My guess is that the chamber is over spec. The three gauges are a "GO", "NO GO" and "Field". The bolt should not close on the "NO GO" gauge, and defineitely not on the "Field" gauge.
 
All Rounds fired on first strike.

I like the idea of the Headspace gauge because it might be useful later and am hoping to avoid needing to pay a gunsmith more money than I need to.

I also went back and did more measuring of the used brass lengths for my own sanity.

13 Cases >= 2.500"
15 Cases >= 2.490" AND < 2.500"
12 Cases < 2.490"

Measured several other unfired brass and they all range between 2.484" and 2.487"

Unfortunately, the boxes are from different lot #s and I mixed them together So I could only be of so much help to Hornady, if it is indeed the ammos fault.
 
well the one has some flatening of the primer, some cratering of the firing pen, and case head seperation. those are all generally signs of over pressure.

one other thought, about what temperature was the ammo when you were shooting? i ask because in hot weather, one might leave ammo in a closed automobile (oven) and it in direct sun light. it can reach temperatures too high to be safe to shoot.

as a general rule, if the cartridge burns your fingers when you pick it up. don't shoot it.
 
It might be that a set of headspace gauges is a questionable investment unless you are getting into gunsmithing. They may cost $100 and they are primarily useful for checking chambers and building guns. Once your chamber checks good or bad you won't have much use.

Terminology can get confusing. The Wilson Cartridge Headspace Bushing Gauge is a little bit misnamed, Cartridges don't have headspace. Chambers do.

The bushing gauge measures the length of cartridge from the headspacing datum circle on the shoulder to the case head.

I tried to give an overall picture for you to understand the issue. We are in danger of going off into the technical weeds.

The reloading die companies nearly always make dies and shellholders so if we just use them per instructions they will load SAAMI spec ammo that SHOULD work fine in any SAAMI spec gun.

Many of us have loaded ammo just fine for decades without any bushing gauges.

Advanced handloading techniques can use such tools to control head clearance . For right now, your major concern is 1) Is my rifle in spec? Is it the problem? Its a base 2 + or - thing. No need to fix what ain't broke.

The bushing gauge can tell you if your ammo is in spec. Handloading,that can be useful. A lot of successful handloaders don't have them. You decide.

Your measurements of approx 2.500 inch is a different spec . Thats cartridge case length that has nothing to do with headspace or head clearance.
It tells you if you need to trim your cases to length.

All of this is covered in any good reloading manual. These are essential equipment! Read and digest the text in the manuals! Its all there. Youtube can be a useful supplement, but realize any basement dweller with a computer can make a you tube video.

Outfits like Sierra and Hodgdon and Nosler and Lee have a great interest in provding safe,tested information on reloading.

Youtube is great but take it with a grain of salt. There IS some BS there.
 
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