basic revolver questions.

[g.willikers]

A main ingredient in becoming an instructor is knowing how to teach what you know and over coming students' problems.
That's probably the major benefit of taking an instructor course, no matter the subject.

 

[Nanuk]

Certifications mean little to you. You know nothing of the subject you wish to teach. In my mind this is where accidents happen and bad information get propagated.

 

[shafter]

If the OP doesn't know the answers to the questions he is asking he probably shouldn't be teaching a course.

There is a difference between a basic safety course and tactical training. Fundamentals of safety and basic operation of the firearm should be mastered before advancing to tactical drills.

This seems to becoming a trend on the boards lately. Individuals without proper credentials wanting to train others.

 

[44 AMP]

S&W and Ruger have the hand on the right side and the barrel consequently turns against the clock.

Ruger, Smith, Charter all go counterclockwise (when viewed from the rear)

Sorry, gentlemen, but you are not entirely correct. The first Ruger I picked up rotates CLOCKWISE, as seen from the rear. A VAQUERO!

You are correct about the DA revolvers, but you didn't SAY you are talking about DA revolvers (only). ALL RUGERS don't go counterclockwise.

Frankly, I would not include single action revolvers in a basic safety course.

I would. I would include at least a mention (and an example if available) of everything I could, in a BASIC safety course. Not just what is currently popular carry, on the street. One of the greatest (filmed) "lack of training" things I have seen was on one of the "cops" shows a little while back. Young officer makes a stop on the street, finds drugs and a DA revolver. The cop DIDN'T KNOW how to UNLOAD the revolver. He placed the loaded gun on the hood of his car, and watched it until his shift SGT showed up (who DID know how to unload it) and unloaded the revolver.

Here we have a (still) common gun, and a cop who can do nothing but keep an eye on the gun until his (older) supervisor can get there, to make it safe.
This, to me, is a definite shortfall in the officer's training...

I grant you that an SA revolver is seldom carried on the street, but if you don't include it in a basic safety course, at all, when Marcie finds Uncle Al's Colt SAA in his dresser drawer, she's not going to have a clue....

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

OK

I take back what I said about not including single action revolvers in a basic safety course. If I teach such a course, I will bring a few modern double action revolvers.

I will also bring a couple of Colt Single Action Armies.

A New Model Ruger

A Three Screw Ruger

A Smith and Wesson Schofield

and just to round it out, a Merwin Hulbert

I want to make sure the student is exposed to as many different types of single action revolvers as possible, so he will know what to do if he encounters one. I will also bring plenty of Black Powder cartridges so the student gets the full effect.


Hmmmmmm......Maybe I'll bring a couple of Tip Ups too. Oh darn, only six photos per post.

 

[Salmoneye]

No Webleys?

No Enfields???

The horror...

 

[Aguila Blanca]

If the OP doesn't know the answers to the questions he is asking he probably shouldn't be teaching a course.

The purpose of asking questions is to gain knowledge. There's nothing wrong with asking questions. Remember, the only dumb question is the one you didn't ask.

That said, the OP asked a question for which the answer lies in the NRA's Basic Pistol course and which was answered by several NRA-certified instructors. But the OP rejects anything coming from NRA instructors. I'm mystified as to how one can expect to learn when one refuses to heed those who best know the answers.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Personally, while I fully support exposing students to all types of handguns, I also don't like bringing real guns into the classroom. Traditions Firearms has a half-decent, blank-firing DA revolver that seems to be loosely copied from a Ruger (based on the design of the cylinder release). I bought one of these to use in my classes.

They also have (or used to have) a noise-maker clone of a Colt SAA, that fires shotgun primers. I also have one of those for my classes. Can't post a picture, as it doesn't seem to be on their web site, but it's a fairly decent, inexpensive copy. It'll never be mistaken fior the real thing by anyone who has seen the real thing, but it works to demonstrate the action.

I also have a blank-firing 1911 for SA semi-auto. Still looking for a blank-firing DA semi-auto.

 

[Nanuk]

The purpose of asking questions is to gain knowledge. There's nothing wrong with asking questions. Remember, the only dumb question is the one you didn't ask.

That said, the OP asked a question for which the answer lies in the NRA's Basic Pistol course and which was answered by several NRA-certified instructors. But the OP rejects anything coming from NRA instructors. I'm mystified as to how one can expect to learn when one refuses to heed those who best know the answers.

Instead of teaching from experience he will be teaching based upon someone else's opinion. He will be parroting information that he does not know is true or false or why it is so.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Instead of teaching from experience he will be teaching based upon someone else's opinion. He will be parroting information that he does not know is true or false or why it is so.

One has to find the balance between first-hand experience and second-hand knowledge. In the case of the NRA Basic Pistol curriculum, that's not the unsubstantiated opinion of a lone "sumdood," it's the distillation of years of training experience by some of the best firearms trainers in the country.

I work for an engineering firm and I'm often on the sites of major construction projects. It's a regular experience to find a tradesman doing some task completely wrong. When informed that he's doing it wrong, the answer more often than not is "I've been doin' it this way for twenty years!"

Well, okay, Mate, then you've been doing it wrong for twenty years.

There's a place for experience, but experience only counts when it's good experience. Continually practicing doing something incorrectly doesn't make you good at whatever you're doing, it just makes it more difficult when you eventually decide (or are forced) to learn how to do it right.

 

[b.thomas]

Speed loading in basic safety class??

Always thought anything thing dealing with speed loading a handgun, was for an advance class.........not a beginner or intermediate one??

 

[UncleEd]

OK, I'll join in on this silly thread:

What's a revolver?

 

[44 AMP]

What's a revolver?

One of the Beatles albums,,,

Goggle it!

 

[stagpanther]

What's a revolver?

One of my ex's

 

[James K]

That would be like inventing your own driver ed course. There have been many courses of instruction in pistol/revolver shooting developed over the years. It makes no sense to re-invent the wheel and develop your own, at least until you have surveyed what is available already. Contact the NRA for a list of what is currently on offer at little or no cost.

Jim

 

[Boncrayon]

Sounds like you need the basic NRA Pistol instruction course. Speed load for a revolver is somewhat immaterial in a combat situation, as you will have split-second fire response and miss more than half of your shots on the advance of an attack!...not enough time to speed load the next rounds. Practice with your 5-6 shots at the range several times. Speed load is a secondary thing if you have the time and a group is coming at you in storm!

Get a semi-auto that has a double stack magazine and you will not need a speed loader. A second loaded magazine is the "just in case" scenario.

 

[tahunua001]

to be clear, I never said I would reject the opinions or advice of anyone who is an NRA instructor, I was simply stating my distaste at the training I've received from people touting the same qualifications, and stating my distrust of the entire certification process.

there is a lot of good information in this thread and there are a lot of solid criticisms of my qualifications. however I do find it interesting, the number of people who assume that in order to teach the basics, a teacher must be the master of all. it's a wonder all of the pre school teachers in America who don't hold PHDs haven't been fired already... nobody has a solid understanding of all types of firearms, and no class, no matter how comprehensive is going to be able to expose students to every type of handgun out there, there's just not enough time and the amount of information covered will also mean low retention.

now that that's settled. Proceed with the chlorophyll

 

[PzGren]

however I do find it interesting, the number of people who assume that in order to teach the basics, a teacher must be the master of all.

A teacher for gun safety should have complete comprehension of all safety aspects and enough experience in conveying the info and analysing students shortcomings.

I agree with the OP that most teachers are poorly prepared with what can best be described as a minimalistic formal qualification that they received in the express lane. I am a shooting instructor and range officer for almost four decades, first in the military and then as a coach in a private gun club. It took me many years to analyse a shooters target, stance, hold, and dummy drills to effectively correct mistakes of others while I still work on improving my own shooting.

The greatest achievement, though, is that we never had an accident happening at the range.

 

[Jim Watson]

no class, no matter how comprehensive is going to be able to expose students to every type of handgun out there,

It's not exposing the STUDENTS to every type of handgun that is the objective, but the INSTRUCTOR had better be able to teach the generic novice civilian shooter how to manage almost anything he walks in with. Or tell him it is unsafe and provide a loaner.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Or tell him it is unsafe and provide a loaner.

That could run into the same problem the OP encountered in h8is ill-fated NRA class. A number of years ago a member of the M1911.org forum posted up an item he was hoping was going to result in a pile of attaboys. He wrote that he was an NRA-certified instructor and that he had found that "all" new Colt 1911s were unsafe as they left the factory, because if you pulled the trigger with the hammer on half cock, the hammer would fall. He proudly proclaimed that he refused to allow students to use these guns in his classes unless they first allowed him to "fix" them.

The problem is that all new Colt 1911s (except for one model, I believe, the aptly-named "Series 70") come with a firing pin safety and what some describe as a "quarter-cock shelf instead of a half-cock notch." In short, they are designed to allow the hammer to fall from the half- (or quarter-) cocked position, but the drop is so short that it won't light off a primer. Numerous 1911 old hands told the guy in no uncertain terms that these guns weren't broken, and that he was foolish to try to "fix" a problem that didn't exist. He got huffy, took his marbles, and went home.

The point of this little story is that telling someone his or her gun is unsafe should not be a cop out response to any gun the instructor isn't familiar with. If you don't know enough about a particular firearm to know for certain whether or not it's safe -- it's better to not say anything. I'm sure you've heard the expression, "It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."