Bad Martial Arts (Teaching as Advertised)

I should have warned you, KF, that Taekwondo is sometimes looked upon with suspicion around here. Too many McDojos handing out black belts as door prizes.

Though I might hasten to add that many arts have that problem, and if BJJ becomes as widespread and popular as TKD, it will probably have the same problems. Was reading the other day that Krav Maga dropped their belt system for this very reason. KM didn't have belts when it first hit these shores, and Lichtenfield (sp) grudgingly agreed to institute a system of belts to better "fit in" to existing systems here. After a couple of years, however, KM began to see schools popping up with students who didn't live up to their rankings. In addition, Lichtenfield decided there was too much pressure to move into competition, which he thought would dilute the combative aspects, so the belts were abandoned and there are no KM competitions to this day.

All this is from a book, so I don't pretend to know how accurate it is, but it was interesting.
 
Don Gwinn:
Though I might hasten to add that many arts have that problem, and if BJJ becomes as widespread and popular as TKD, it will probably have the same problems.
Click to expand...
True enough. However that won't happen - because BJJ will NEVER become as popular as TKD. I can go into endless reasons why that is so, but I won't. :)

Skorzeny
 
Madgrad, that's the good news. It's an ebook a guy hosts for free. Again, I can't vouch for the information contained therein, but if it's not good, you haven't paid for it. Can't beat that deal.

http://www.angelfire.com/art/maa

In addition to the book on KM, there's one on Aikido, which was the reason I checked it out, and couple of others.
 
Skorzeny.....................Sorry about not answering you sooner...I'm new to this forum stuff....

No 1 year blackbelts at my school......average time is 5 years....a couple have trained 5 days a week and made it in three.......But your point is a good one.....the reason for so many fake schools is that in the USA the martial arts industry is unregulated......there is nothing to stop "Joe Blow" form opening "Joe Blows school of martial arts' and teaching whatever joe blow wants to...
many schools have unqualified instructors or instructors (even grandmasters) who have gotten greedy and are selling rank to make big profits. I even know of one school who "awards" blackbelts for 1 years attendance. They even only teach the kicks on one leg!....(I hope a student at least gets to choose which leg!)
It is a big concern of mine. I have been working to change it as well as several other aspects i see as wrong in the idustry.

You're question is a good one........I base my self-defense class on a few factors.

First-hand experiences....I grew up in the slums ( a white boy in an all black city).....and learned the mentality of attackers as well as tried and true methods and the ability to dispel myths....(You may be surprised to know how mnay women still believe that a good kick to the groin will disable an attacker.)

Though I am not ranked in it, I have studied Hapkido quite a bit and tested techniques to adapt them to people of all levels of abilities.

I also address the emotional/psychological/legal implications. I also stresss basics over advanced techniques since a good command of the basics will get most people out of most confrontations and avoid injury.

I do not mislead anyone and make them think that what I show them gives them anymore advantage than they would have if they don't practice them. Nor do I let them believe they can go out and take some bar brawler out in a single move. I cover many aspects of the realities of attack and self defense.

I also take into account who I am teaching.....children......ladies......students....or civilians....different approaches must be used for the different classes.

I agree with you about belt rankings.....I use them But i would rather not. However, American's (especially children) are proned to want to see an outward display of their progress.....(I have tied a white belt on my waist a couple of times just to show my students that the belt by itself means little.

I also agree with you that BJJ will not fall to the same level of exploitism that TKD has. for the more reasons than any civilian would be aware of, (although I've seen Mcdogo's with ju-jitsu as well)....unfortunately it comes with the rise in popularity.
 
I was the sai instructor at a TKD school for a few years and kept hearing about an instructor from a local "ninjutsu" school who was purported to be "the" sai master. I finally got to see him in a tournament (weapon kata) and good god the guy was fast but his technique was sloppy. I wondered how someone could develop such speed but not the skill to back it up so I went and talked to him, he showed me the pair of sai he was using, aluminum......I had a really hard time not busting up right there.


another thing I've found as a rule of thumb is that hardcore anti-gun teachers generally aren't worth their salt, most of the instructors that really knew self defense were advocates of CCW, even my tai-chi teacher :)

btw, anyone know of a good chinese broadsword instructor in the seattle area?
 
I think it would be difficult to be a real-live master of a "martial art" who had put any thought into combat against modern armed adversaries and still conclude that guns are bad, unnecessary, or whatever. Why would you train so hard for a fight against someone in grappling range, but refect the ability to stop the same assailant from ten yards away?
 
I was then disqualified for using to much force in point sparring.
Click to expand...

Hmmm. I thought that was kinda the point of point sparring - you ain't supposed to hurt anyone! In any sport, if you don't follow the rules, you don't win. It works like that.



Silliest 'martial arts' training I ever had to put up with was in Basic Training. Our CO was a First Looey with his first command. He pretty much let the NCOs run the place, which was a good thing. (And meant we got a lot tougher training than other training companies around us.) But he got it into his head that we needed to have some martial arts training. I don't know what silly dusty manual they got this out of, but oh, my! Two days of the most absurd caricatures of "HiYA!" this and "Ho!" that. It would have embarrassed a B movie.

Then the Colonel happened to drive by and see us flailing around, and that was the end of that! (I suspect one Company Commander got, uh, "spoken to" behind closed doors.)

But he still got his Captain's bars before we were done with AIT.


The funniest part was that a few clowns really thought they had become seriously bad dudes from all this intensive martial art training!
 
About aikido

Hi, everybody.

I'd like to learn Aikido because I saw a demonstration of several martial arts and Aikido seemed to me the stealthest one; let me explain you: I live in Italy, where lawyers and judges give you the right to be wounded by the first punk you meet, not the right to defense yourself: I guess you'd have to report to the police after, if you can still speak.. so, if you want to walk away on your feet, you have to be smart: sweep up the punk, but don't make too obious that you use martial arts (martial arts, uh? So, maybe you are not such a good guy..).

I've seen some dojo to understand which one to choose, and I think (1)yes, a lot of people wear a black belt and teach aikido just because they keep practicing for some years (2)some others look at how many pupils they have rather than to the effectiveness of the moves they teaches, so they go very easy.. Aikido like a state of mind, fitness, rather then fight.

Bye!

Erminio
 
Well, glad to see this thread is growing. Let's try to keep away from my martial art is better than yours. I'll start a new one today. I want this one reserved for humor only.

Keep your contributions coming...
 
Aikido is really neat stuff that I'd like to learn one day, but I'm not sure it would be all that stealthy. If there was an investigation (say the punk sued you) then it would soon become public knowledge that you trained in Aikido unless you did what they do in the movies--meet a mysterious old man by accident in the park one day and get him to teach you the secret art his family has used for generations. ;)

Probably stealthier than a roundhouse kick with a loud kihap, but still. . . . what if you learn Aikido, but shout "Judo Chop!" or "Judo Trip!" every time you execute a technique in a fight? Just tell the cops you saw it in a movie once. :D
 
I'd love to have seen you go a few rounds with the "sensei"!

Full contact, of course.



But aren't you more likely to get hurt fighting someone like that? I mean, you punch, and your hand kinda sinks in, then bounces back in an unexpected direction, like from an uneven trampoline. You could sprain something!


:D
 
Point sparring, according to my last sensei, is just like throwing a fake.
If it doesn't LOOK like it's going to make contact, and hurt, he doesn't count it.
The secret is to not hurt each other in the two hours that you're there.
That's why I'm not afraid to spar a black belt.
Now, green belts are another story.
They have developed the power, but don't have the control.
The last match I attended saw 3 of my friends get injured.
*sigh* Ruptured kidney (I think), 2 teeth stuck in mouth guard, and broken eye socket.
That's about when I quit.
Reminds me of the movie fight club.
 
I studied at a great Kenpo dojo (Tom Connors Traco) in the early 80s for afew years, and about 3 years ago I thought I'd like to get back into it.

I signed up at the Kenpo studio nearest me, since the one I used to go to was on the other side of town now. The new one turned out to be pretty crappy. I have no doubt the senior guys knew their stuff, but they'd have extremely junior staff teaching lower levels. My second lesson I had to correct the guy teaching me, with something I remembered from 13 years earlier!

I started Krav Maga training about 6 weeks ago, and I'm very impressed so far. Everything is practiced with a partner, and they try to stess us as much as possible while we practice. There seem to be a lot of LEOs in the class, and we push pretty hard. I'm sore as hell right now from last night's class. We spend a lot of time smacking each other in the head with focus mitts.

I think one strength of Krav Maga (or Gracie BJJ) is that the name is trademarked, and nobody can use it without permission. The head of American KM is a prosecutor in LA, and I understand he's sued the pants off of any pretenders that have popped up. You can always just write their HQ and ask about a certain school or instructor.

Best part, no katas. They do encourage us to spar/fight full contact at some point, though, if only to get used to taking a punch.
 
I spent a year in Norway and got to a seminar there. The highly ranked instructor, a known expert in his field and definitely not a bad teacher, kept making jokes about gays all thru the weekend's instruction (now DON'T bend over like THIIIIS!). Brouhaha ha.

Statistically we must have had a few gays in a Norwegian class of about 60 people: the brouhahahahs started having question marks around them after the first five minutes. But the poor sensei wouldn't get it. Altogether, quite bad taste of him - and certainly a bit of a culture clash. This was an American teacher.

Well, to add to this teacher's communications skills, I asked him about the academics of his field (this was a specialty seminar) and he wound up directly slandering another proficient scholar of the same subject. That I happened to have met earlier and thought better of. Not that there was anything basically wrong with this teacher's instruction either.

After the seminar I was convinced that this instructor won't be getting any more of my hard earned seminar and MA material budget.
 
Im new to reply but not new to reading this forum :) my kinda guys (and girls)

So please do ; wax poetic for me for a time about "martial" art classes proved by local police departments ( also known as PAL)
 
In college a friend of mine was taking some secret-style of kungfu that he really enjoyed. He convinced me to tag along and watch a class.

We went downtown and entered a large office bldgs service entrance and wandered thru these little tunnels for a few minutes. We must have been 60-70 ft underground by the time we got to the class- tiny little rooms with 7ft ceilings :(

The teacher was a very thin, soft spoken black guy only a few years older than us, dressed like a ninja. Instead of a mask he work a spandex do-rag like movie gangbangers do, but the rest of the outfit was 100% ninja with the split toed shoes and the gathered joints :rolleyes:

We chatted for a few moments and the man explained that his style (I can't remember what it was called, I'd never heard of it) was based on crane and tiger animal systems of kungfu and traced its lineage 4-500 years back. It had both internal and external elements and that he favored training his students more internally to help support their bodies and allow them to absorb or dissipate damage from their opponent's blows. He felt that this qigong was important to start right away because it took time to develop.

Class started and they did indeed begin with internal breathing exercises and then transistioned into thier physical drills- punches, kicks, some 1 step sparring and so on.

I watched for awhile and to his credit the guy was fast and his movements were very crisp. There were maybe 8 guys in the class and most seemed pretty new, so there was alot of fumbling and NO power being generated. The instructor had his guys doing kicking drills with a focus mitt- hi-low-med-low, etc. and this one little kid (maybe fifteen?) misses the pad and tags the teacher in the side and the dude just drops like he'd been headshot. :eek:

A few moments later he worked his way to his feet and limped off saying that his ribs were broken. :confused:

Neither of us ever went back. :)
 
Interesting thread...

Gentlemen, I must be the devil's advocate on something. Several posters have run down overweight martial arts instructors in this thread and it is a separate "running down" of them for that reason in addition to their poor teaching of "martial" arts. I have to disagree with this to some extent.

Although I agree that an expert martial artist SHOULD be fit, there is no absolute criteria saying that fitness and ability go hand-in-hand. Three cases from personal experience;

1. One of my earliest instructors was a 1st degree black belt in both judo and shorin-ryu karate. He was overweight and had a bad back and bad knees (from old injuries, not from his weight). He was also incredibly tough-minded and technically competent. I, at the time, was young and fit but relatively inexperienced. I thought, mistakenly, that an old fat guy would be a pushover in a fight. Of course, a teenager's muscle density put me at a tremendous disadvantage in comparison to an adult man, but I didn't know that at the time. Anyway, the guy is still teaching and is fairly active. He is a very tough customer and has proven himself in any number of fights, both in the dojo (striking and grappling) and in the "street". He is strong and tough, though not fast, but he makes up for his lack of speed with timing and experience. He is definitely NOT someone with whom you want to tangle unarmed.

2. A fellow student studying a bastardized Muay Thai/karate/grappling/escrima/whatever style was a guy in (at the time) his late forties. He was overweight (though not grossly obese or anything) and had had an alcohol problem throughout his life (he was "reformed" and was a substance-abuse counselor). He could not, despite his best efforts, gain much flexibility or speed. Bemoaning this to the instructor, the instructor told him not to worry about it but to concentrate his efforts on the things that he COULD do well. He also said (and rightly so) that attitude/mind-set was the biggest component of fighting, anyway. The old student was heartened by this and took it as something of a revelation. He concentrated on what he COULD do well and excelled. A very tough individual with strong will (curiously enough, given his history with alcohol), he was NEVER in good physical condition, at least to appearances, but he had almost unlimited endurance. He decided to run a marathon to prove to himself that he could and succeeded in finishing ahead of about 1/3 of the runners. He was intelligent and technically competent, proved himself in a lot of fights (he was a bouncer and skip tracer after my association with him), and was almost impossible to hurt.

3. A silat instructor of mine was crippled enough that he had to use a cane. He was not all that old (mid to late forties, I would guess...I never knew) and wasn't fat but wasn't in what could be described as "good" physical condition, either. I found out later that he was terminally ill when I knew him but I didn't know it at the time. He watched classes, mostly, and let his senior student run them with pointers when needed. When a point needed to be proven or shown (this was a rough class in terms of pain), the instructor would sometimes stir himself and perform the technique himself. He was American but had lived for years in Malaysia and the Phillipines and was used to a rougher environment than what most Americans see and saw no problem in actually doing unstaged things. Unlike most martial arts classes in which I've been involved, there was little or no "set" sparring or "one-step" sparring or anything like that. The instructor and his senior student were perfectly capable of performing pretty intricate techniques regardless of how you attacked (in other words, you didn't have to intentionally present a target for them to demonstrate). To this day, I haven't seen anyone better than this particular individual in performing locks, finding pressure points, doing throws or any other contact-range techniques (plenty of better punchers and kickers, but that wasn't his style) and he was definitely NOT physically fit.

Anyway, it's not that I disagree with instructors needing to be fit, it's just that physical fitness is no guarantee of knowledge or prowess just like not being fit is no guarantee that that knowledge and/or prowess is not present. Endurance is great and all but doesn't matter much in a fight that's over in a few seconds.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top