Backstreets Pub & Deli in Clemson, SC puts up anti-concealed-carry sign....

[Chris_B]

So the man did this in "frustration"? In regards to what, I wonder?

 

[Microgunner]

People sling mud. That's what we do and have always done.
Some of the most high minded and highly respected people in history have been very adept at it. They were just able to perform at a much higher level.
Slinging mud is human nature so step out of the line of fire and let those so inclined get to it.

 

[SocialAnarchist]

I am sure I will be pounded for my opinion but here goes anyways.

The First Ammendment protects free speech. It doesn't just protect free speech we like. While I find what this business owner said stupid and more than likely hugely damaging to his business, he still has the right to say it. Further, he couldn't have bought this type of publicity. While pro-gun people will stay away, why wouldn't anti-gun people flock to this business to show support for his taking a stand?

We can't protest loudly over the loss of rights regarding the Second Ammendment and then be willing to decimate this guys right to say whatever stupid nonsense he wants to say. If you don't like what he said don't patronize his business. It really is that simple. But posting bogus reviews is tantamount to yellow journalism and is infact lying. That doesn't paint pro-2nd ammendment people in a very positive light.

 

[Theohazard]

Well, you couldn't be more wrong, in my opinion. Of course he's pro-violence. He's advocating for circumstances which will increase violence, not decrease it. That makes him pro-violence..if unintentionally.

OK, let's ignore whether or not this statement is actually true. What really matters is this: Is it really helpful to our cause when you call someone "pro-violence"? As gun-rights supporters, what is our goal when addressing anti-gun folks? Is it to insult, malign, and beat them down verbally? Or is it to try to make them see gun owners in a better light and convince them to see our side of the argument? And if you can't convince them, you still might convince someone else who is listening.

As far as "piling on" or not. I guess y'all have your opinion and I and many others like me have ours, and perhaps never the twain shall meet. I dunno. I think piling on is precisely what needs to be done.

If your goal is to malign this guy as much as possible, all while hurting our cause and convincing many people that gun owners are bad people who shouldn't own guns, then your plan is a good one.

All's fair in love, war, and preservation of civil rights... no?

That's extremely childish. So it's OK because he was mean to us first? I wish more gun-rights supporters stopped worrying about "fairness" and "retaliation" and instead worried more about actually helping our cause, because childishly ganging up on him in such a vitriolic manner definitely hurts our cause and makes us all look bad.

 

[Theohazard]

People sling mud. That's what we do and have always done.
Some of the most high minded and highly respected people in history have been very adept at it. They were just able to perform at a much higher level.
Slinging mud is human nature so step out of the line of fire and let those so inclined get to it.

So we should use that strategy just because it's human nature and some people are good at it? Even though that strategy hurts our cause and makes gun owners look bad? That's a pretty ignorant strategy in my opinion.

 

[Theohazard]

I am sure I will be pounded for my opinion but here goes anyways.

No, I think you'll find that a lot of people here agree with you. I do.

Though I will point out one technicality: Nobody is decimating this guy's First Amendment rights. The First Amendment applies to governmental control of free speech; those people have just as much right to say stupid things about him online as he did to post the sign. Though I do agree that we should honor the spirit of the First Amendment by respecting his right to say what he said, even while we disagree with it.

 

[Microgunner]

Theohazard,

No, do the best you possibly can, just don't be surprised or disappointed when people behave like people.

 

[Theohazard]

No, do the best you possibly can, just don't be surprised or disappointed when people behave like people.

OK, I agree with that. I apologize, I guess I missed the point of your previous post.

Though I'm not surprised at these people's behavior. I disagree with it and I think it hurts our cause, but I'm not surprised. But that doesn't mean I should stop voicing my opinion, because maybe I can prevent a few of them from hurting our cause in the future.

 

[zxcvbob]

FWIW, not all speech is protected. "Douchebag" probably fits in the category called "fighting words".

 

[948]

That is not the state approved sign so the one he has posted carries no legal weight. If he had posted the legal signage he would not have created these issues for himself. He probably drives a Prius, too.

 

[Theohazard]

He probably drives a Prius, too.

OK, this kind of ignorant language is exactly what I was talking about in post #24. I don't care if you think you're being funny; using stereotypes to refer to pro-gun-control folks only serves to alienate people from our side.

This is just like referring to anti-gun people as "liberals": All it does is alienate people who might otherwise be on our side. And it also shows a complete lack of political nuance. There are plenty of liberal-leaning people who like guns, and I'm sure more than a few of them drive Priuses. And we want those people on this site along with everyone else.

 

[SocialAnarchist]

How does posting stupid comments and derogatory stereotypes help protect your 2nd Ammendment rights?

Essentially you are doing exactly what the guy you are ranting about did.

 

[Tom Servo]

"Douchebag" probably fits in the category called "fighting words"

That depends on the jurisdiction and their definition of "fighting words."

That said, "douchebag" pushes our standards for language a bit, so let's refrain from using the word "douchebag" so much, even though the proprietor clearly said "douchebag."

There. Everybody giggle. Better? OK.

Yes, his language was coarse and insulting, but if we respond in kind, what does that make us? Frankly, his reputation is going to suffer, even from people who aren't all that concerned with guns. The sign was petty and immature. Let it speak for itself to potential patrons.

 

[Andy Blozinski]

He kind of got what he deserved by attacking others with insults. They're just giving him a dose of his own medicine.

 

[JohnKSa]

So the man did this in "frustration"? In regards to what, I wonder?

I wondered the same thing... I think it might be illuminating to find what prompted him to post the sign.

He kind of got what he deserved by attacking others with insults. They're just giving him a dose of his own medicine.

Perhaps someone carrying a gun attacked him with insults and he just responded with a dose of the same medicine...

Or maybe not. Regardless, the point is still the same. Responding with a dose of the same medicine usually makes things worse, not better.

 

[Theohazard]

There are bunch of people on Yelp who are giving this bar five-star reviews; they're trying to counter-act all the one-star reviews it's getting from angry gun owners. Here are a few of their comments:

The actual proof ( in case we needed it) that a large number of gun owners are mostly world class douchebags.

It's no wonder they call you people crazy gun nuts. I mean really...

I've never eaten here. I've never even been to South Carolina. But I'll give 5 stars to any business that sticks up to NRA redneck bullies.

Bravo for standing up to all the gun nuts! So the language was a little "colorful", but it isn't that different than the language used by many on the other side of the aisle.

Thanks for taking a stand for sanity. Enlightened beings appreciate your plight.

A true American hero. We will back in SC this summer and I can't wait to eat in an establishment where Moronic Gun Toting Drunk Ass teabaggers are kicked to the curb like the garbage they are.

Don't believe the politically driven bull**** reviews. A bunch of rednecks get their feelings hurt because the owner doesn't want them to mix guns with their budlights.

Nice to be able to sit down to dinner without worrying about a drunk gun nut having a bad day and taking their lack of emotional and intellectual maturity out on folks trying to live. [...] By the hate and vitriol displayed to a small business owner exercising his freedoms it is obvious such people are interested in bullying others into their POV alone, which would make Russia a much better fit for that crowd.

See the reaction this gets? How is this helping the gun-rights cause? Think about it for a moment: When you read their comments, do they actually make you start to see things from their point of view? Of course not, it just angers you and makes you want to oppose them even more! And that's exactly how they're reacting to the pro-gun comments!

Please, some people here need to think about their overall strategy, because alienating huge groups of people who get to vote on our gun rights is just downright stupid.

 

[Brotherbadger]

here are plenty of liberal-leaning people who like guns, and I'm sure more than a few of them drive Priuses.

Heck, my FIL is a major Right winger and he drives a Prius. Never judge a book by it's cover. I personally didn't leave a review(not my style), but some of them were actually kind of funny. My personal Favorite:

"Lousy food lousy service. Overall a very douchy atmosphere.

There is no point in eating at a place that clearly hates America so much.

Excerpt from menu:
"Putin Pie
Communist fries
Obama Omelette
Mao's Macaroni"

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

See the reaction this gets?

There we have it. We have proved to be exactly who he/they thought we were and their reaction is exactly as expected.

Frankly, the gun owners who are writing those things are no more welcome in my business than they are in his except in my case it has nothing to do with what they own but rather with the content of their character.

 

[Hal]

See the reaction this gets? How is this helping the gun-rights cause?

Oh - - -it gets even better than that....

There more than a few misinformed people slamming the Backstreet Pub in North Carolina.....

As an FYI in case you missed it - the one in the story w/the sign is a place in South Carolina called the Backstreet's (apostrophe s) Pub.
One has nothing to do with the other.


Boy do we gun owners look like a real bunch of standup people...
(not!!!)

Also FWIW - Facebook pulled the offending site so if you go to "pile on", chances are you're going to just slam some innocent place.

 

[RickB]

How does a business owner know that people are carrying concealed weapons? Does he know if a male patron is wearing women's underwear?