Back Up Gun in Woods

JLK,

CA has some of the largest black bears in the nation. I've seen bears that weighted at least 400 lbs roaming the Sierra Nevada. There are huge bears roaming the San Gabriel Mountains that are just outside of LA. When you get a chance, Google: "Samson hot tub bear." That 700 lb+ specimen came out of the San Gabriel Mountains.

A game warden told me that CA black bears are among the largest in the nation because our temperate climate allows for shorter hibernation periods, and campers and homeowners in bear habitat leave a substantial food supply for them.

When I'm off trails in the Sierra Nevada, I carry a 1911A1 loaded with 9 rounds of 230 grain +P .45 ACP ammo. For me, a 1911A1 is easier to carry, quicker to reload, and has a natural point. However, I can see the rationale of going with a .357 Mag. In fact, the .357 Mag might just be the best trail weapon.

BTW, another factor influencing my decision to go with a 1911A1 is CA has over 30 million people, not all are law abiding. Years ago "Outside" magazine ranked Angeles National Forrest as the most deadly in the nation. The San Gabriels are in Angeles National Forrest.
 
Rifleman1776,

A male black bear in rut is the most dangerous animal in North America. National Geographic airs a program now-and-then about how dangerous male black bears can become when their mating and how many people have been killed by them.

When we fish in the high Sierra, we ALWAYS give bears right-of-way. If a bear meanders into our fishing area, we leave. If a bear wants what we have, we will drop it and back away. We never confront bears. Thank God, I have never had to shoot one. However, I would w/o blinking were a bear to endanger my kids. I have no interest in shooting a bear. I do have interest in keeping my kids alive.

BTW, at least a decade ago I was watching a fishing show on ESPN when it aired such shows on Saturday mornings. In one episode, a fisherman talked about how a black bear in a remote locale in Canada took a 3 year-old girl off of her front porch, and she was never seen again. That would be beyond devastating.
 
You have a rifle in your hands and you want to carry the extra weight of a "back up" pistol? Call me kooky but if I have a 30-06 rifle in my hands and I need to shoot something I think I'll use the 30-06.

Animal attacks on humans are very, very rare. If it does happen, you probably won't have time to be drawing a pistol. Better use the gun in your hands.

Be aware that in some states where handgun hunting is not allowed it may be illegal to carry a pistol while hunting.
 
If I was hunting I would have a rifle in my hand, I am not that good at folowing a fast moving animal with a scope . Also if I was fishing I wouldn't have a rifle in my hand. But the real purpose of my question wasn't as much about the guns in my hand but what bullets are the best against these animals.
Thanks, I learn alot from these discusions
 
Are attacks from Wild boars while fishing a real threat? If not and all you need is protection from bears, I suggest bear spray. In the hands of someone that unfamiliar and inexperienced with handguns they need to ask, which gun and which ammo, the spray is more accurate and more effective.
 
Are attacks from Wild boars while fishing a real threat? If not and all you need is protection from bears, I suggest bear spray.
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The OP is from Naples Fl. In reality, neither is a real threat down here. Yes, there are bears and boars. No, they generally don't attack people. The only boar attacks I've ever heard of down here are when they are being chased by someone (usually with dogs). I've never heard of a bear attack in Fl.

I do, however, carry a .357 when hunting. Like I said earlier, the first two cylinders are loaded with CCI snake load. Snakes don't really attack either and snake boots are enough protection but I don't like rattlers and cottonmouths so they get the death penalty. The other 4 rounds are more for 2-legged varmints. They are your most viable threat.
 
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357 with any load suitable for deer would suffice. A 13 year old girl was just mauled while deer hunting in PA a week or so ago got between sow and cubs. IT does happen. I have had my Dog chased by a bear while grouse hunting. The dog run back to me with the bear in close pursuit luckily it saw me and broke off the chase at about 30 yards. I had a 20 ga with 8 shot and was un holstering gp100 with 158 grain xtp. Thankfully neither weapon was needed. Where I hunt some grouse hunters have lost dogs to wolves while hunting so I am always carrying a sidearm even when scouting deer or archery hunting which is legal in State I was hunting with CCW permit. I you are more comfortable with 45 and its legal it would work also. Remember any firearm is better than no firearm. WE have no hogs to worry about where I hunt so I can offer no advice.

Mwal
 
I have ben thinking of getting a 44 Mag. but every where I look there is no 44 ammo available.
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Walmart, Gander, BASS and Academy all have the ammo in stock

The OP is from Naples Fl. In reality, neither is a real threat down here. Yes, there are bears and boars. No, they generally don't attack people. The only boar attacks I've ever heard of down here are when they are being chased by someone (usually with dogs). I've never heard of a bear attack in Fl.

I do, however, carry a .357 when hunting. Like I said earlier, the first two cylinders are loaded with CCI snake load. Snakes don't really attack either and snake boots are enough protection but I don't like ratters and cottonmouths so they get the death penalty. The other 4 rounds are more for 2-legged varmints. They are your most viable threat.
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Exactly, we ran across a large Cottonmouth while walking a Sporting Clays course. Glad we brought extra ammo..........
 
Because i ask a question of others dosnt mean I have no experience with hand guns. Fourums are for discussion not to criticize others.
My thanks to all those that added to the discussion.
 
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Of the two choice, .357 magnum without a doubt. Preferably out at LEAST a 3" barrel, if not a 4-6" bbl. Get a nice hot 180 grain JHP or soft point and do not fear, .357 is here!

Honestly though, I think .357 magnum would probably be MINIMUM against small bears, and out of the question for the big "Brownie Poohs", but against deer, coyote, mountain lion, oinkers (pigs), bobcats, etc. the .357 magnum is about as good as it gets. Plus it works darn well against predators with two legs (people) but perhaps not larger bipeds like Sasquatches. For Sasquatch, I would start with a hot .44 and work my way up.
 
Originally posted by JLK:

Because i ask a question of others dosnt mean I have no experience with hand guns. Fourums are for discussion not to criticize others.
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If you are referring to my post, I was not criticizing, only being honest and real.

Originally posted bu buck460XVR:

Are attacks from Wild boars while fishing a real threat? If not and all you need is protection from bears, I suggest bear spray. In the hands of someone that unfamiliar and inexperienced with handguns they need to ask, which gun and which ammo, the spray is more accurate and more effective.
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Again, if you are experienced and proficient enough to use a handgun effectively to successfully fight off a real attack by a bear, you know enough about your firearms and your skills, that you don't need to ask others what you should use. Again, this is not criticism, but honesty and being realistic. Bear spray has been shown in many studies to be more effective against bear attacks than handguns, even in the hands of proficient handgunners. In the hands of the inexperienced, a handgun may give a false sense of security and create a scenario that the person would not allow themselves to enter without it. Same goes for choice of firearms. In many cases being more proficient in a lesser caliber can be more effective than buying a new hand cannon and not bein' able to hit squat. Bear spray has proven to be more effective than either. Are you proficient enough with ANY handgun to be able to hit the CNS of a running bear when you have 3 seconds to react before it's upon you? This includes putting down your fishing pole and getin' the gun outta the holster and a charge of adrenaline in your veins. Again, if and when you can, you won't be here askin' us what YOU should use. The girl mentioned in this thread that was attacked by a bear was actively hunting with a rifle, while being on stand during a deer drive. This meant the gun was loaded and she was paying full attention to what was going on around her. She also had the cubs run by her first as a warning and saw the sow coming. She still did not get a shot off herself. Something to think about.
 
Your suggestion of spray is probably good advice. I have Ben shooting hand guns for many years including some competition shooting. Have shot many types of guns very proficiently .
I have not hunted in many years though. Shooting guns and having the knowledge of which bullets best penetrate the skin of certain animals is two different things.
As I get to retirement and will spend more time in the woods I like to gather all the information I can, Thank You
 
I would not recommend relying on bear spray. There are too many negative factors connected to it. If you have to carry it, then follow your state's law. If you can carry the best method for saving your life, I'd carry it.
 
Sorry if I sounded critical JLK, but since you have been a member here since 2001, you know these "what gun/ammo for bears" threads make the rounds at least once a month, if not more often. I may be gettin' a little weary of them. But I do honestly recommend bear spray as ones first consideration for defense against them, before suggesting the purchase of a handcannon or "bear killer" ammo. While shooting guns and knowledge of which bullets are best in specific scenarios may be different, the more one knows about one, the more they know about the other. Enjoy your retirement....I too am looking forward to mine.
 
my question was driven by thinking of ammo compatibility ...if you were carrying a rifle in 357....

I always carry a hand gun when I hunt, I have had to go into the brush after wounded hogs...
 
45 vs 357 in dealing with large animals.

Police often have to put down large animals are traffic accidents or other reasons.

I spent 20 years with the Anchorage Police Dept. and had shot several moose.

We were issued Model 28s. Late in my career they decided to allow us to start carrying semis. Being a huge fan of the 1911, I tried carrying my M1911a1. But it didn't take long to realize it didn't have the penetration of the 357s and was much less effective on moose.

I went back to carrying my Model 28. I found 150/158 gr LSWCs to be the most effective.

Shot this guy in the neck when he was charging my patrol car after he forced several other cars into the ditch.

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My $$$....

I'd consider a Glock 21 with a Guncrafters .50GI conversion kit(if available).
The .50GI is somewhat of a wildcat but the caliber has decent ballistics & it's smaller that a .50AE or the rare .440 Corbon.
If a .50GI pistol doesn't meet your needs, consider a Glock 20 10mm with the extended hunting barrel. It's fast, offers good ballistics & it's powerful. A ported extended barrel might be worth it. Trijicon HD night sights too. :D

The Glock 20 10mm has been around since the early 1990s. Glocks are durable & able to hold up to outdoor carry.
A Bianchi M12 or 92II series holster would be a good fit. It's easy to clean, can be converted to SAS carry/shoulder/tanker/etc. The M12 comes in OD, black & woodland camo.

Clyde
 
kraigwy brought up a good point. I might add that the Glock 20 with an aftermarket barrel suitable for hard cast lead bullets would fall into the same power and penetration niche as that heavy .357 load. If you are opting for the aftermarket barrel, you could get it in 6" or 7", and boost velocity even more, and not make the package any bigger than a 6" barreled .357, and a lot lighter.
 
Grouse hunting in the U.P. I've always had a backup handgun on my person.
Figured any toothy critter wanting to make a snack of my bird dog might become a bit agitated at being shot with a 20 gauge loaded with #8's and might decide to take it's discontent out on me instead. Fortunately I've never had to even remove it from the holster, except at the end of a days hunt when we would enjoy some informal practice before heading for home. For years I was pretty much glued to a 1911 but as time wore on and my collection grew I've carried a variety of different side arms, the worst of which was a 7.5" Ruger Super Blackhawk. Not that there was anything wrong with the gun but hauling it on my hip through out a 6 mile hike in the woods and snow really kicked my butt. Probably wouldn't have noticed it when I was 20 but at 50 whew!
At any rate what I finally settled on was a Smith & Wesson 625-3 mountain gun in .45 Colt. I load it with Cast Performance 265gr. WFN gas check bullets on top of 9.0gr. of Unique. Outstanding performance and would more than likely be my choice even for Alaska.
 
Notice the bullet that KraigWy recommended. A heavy for caliber cast SWC. Most ammo in 357 and 45ACP are for two legged vermin. A 250-275gr cast SWC in 44 Special or 45 Colt at 1050fps is easy to shoot and will blow through any Black Bear or Hog at any angle.
 
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