AZ to Drop CCW Permit Requirement

Glen is right. These 'no permit needed states" issue licenses for those that want them for this very purpose. The standard for getting licenses in these states must be sufficiently high to qualify for reciprocity in many states.
 
Vermont doesn't "recognize" a TN permit. Anybody with no criminal record can pack in VT without a permit, period, doesn't matter what state they're from.

AZ will be the same way. Visitors from Cali or wherever will be able to pack.

Green card holders too, from wherever.

LEGAL visitors from other nations, I'm not sure about to be honest. They can't buy guns per fed rules, but I don't know if it would be legal for them to borrow one. I intend to find out. It would be kinda cool to have a visiting friend from England realize that the whole place is basically awash in guns, and offer them a loaner :D.
 
I received an email response to my questions about the new bill from the writer and sponsor of the bill, State Senator Russell Pearce. It was a very cordial email message, and it included a line that stated, "Yes, a CCW permit will still be offered to those that want one." This was the only reassuring response I received from anyone I contacted. If accurate, AZ will continue to offer a CCW permit, specifically for those who need to use it in other states. I was worried, but I guess they thought of this beforehand after all.
 
Yeah, same thing Alaska did. Plus it means the current permitholders (like me) aren't screwed, we get *something* for the $180 I spent altogether.
 
$180? Ouch...
Gov got the changes she wants, Senate votes Third Read tomorrow, then the House, then to Gov Brewers desk. I think we might win this one.

Got a few other good bills going through, too. We make our laws a little bit better each year...
 
regardless of what is considered wise or not. It should not be for the government to decide. It is an individuals right to carry. It should have never been regulated.

If we continually attempt to regulate everything for safeties sake, than eventually we will be strapped in a recliner, watching propaganda on public broadcast only TV, drinking milk shakes,

I also support allowing teenagers to have easier access to firearms. When I was growing up we didnt have our guns locked away from us. I had mine on a gunrack in my room and when I could get out I did to go squirrel hunting or shooting. I didnt even tell my parents I was going, it was just something they knew I went about and did for fun. I never even thought of shooting someone with those guns.

In the end a person has to get their hands on a gun without having someone breathing down their neck.

When you have kids being exposed to all they are these days without some kind of moral checks and balances it is not surprising that some of them go nuts. Its not the guns fault. You have a kid playing video games that train them to kill humans etc etc. It is obvious that the thought of killing humans with a gun is always in the back of their mind.

When you are an adult your hormones have calmed down enough that you can be exposed to perpetual violence without an obssessive compulsive tendency to act out what you are exposed to.

regardless it would be best for a person to get out and shoot and hunt rather than to play first person shooters and watch "Commando" on TV.

BTW I am preaching to myself as well as to anyone else.
 
what scares me more than anything regarding young adults and kids is the frequency with which SSRI/SNRI antidepressants are handed out to them like candy. Don't like school ? Take this prozac. Kidsp pick on you in gym class ? Here's some celexa.

Every school shooting i've been able to find data on, the shooter had antidepressants in his system.

I think video games CAN be a problem, but usually arent. I was playing video games when i was a kid with a skeet gun in my trunk at all times (including school). Then again, it was an atari 2600....

It's the antidepressants that concern me more than games and rap music.....
 
Some medications do suppress your ability to feel guilt and remorse for an action or to perceive the guilt or remorse you would anticipate feeling after an action.
 
I'm not sure if this bill is such a good idea.....

As an Arizona state resident, and CCW holder, I definately do not want just "any yahoo" carrying concealed without proper "guidance." The CCW classes are designed to teach a person a few things....

First, it teaches when the use of deadly force is justified. Also, when it is not justified. This is the topic of most concern to me.

Second, it is designed to teach methods of how to handle potentially life threatening situations without agrivating the situation to the point where deadly force is necessary.

Third, it teaches Where you can carry and Where you cannot.

Just because "John Doe"" is of legal status to buy a handgun and carry visibly, does not necessarily mean that "John Doe" has the level of responsibility and knowledge to carry concealed. I think this "person" would actually endanger himself and others. Incuding possibly Me, or ArmoredMan, Sonick. If this "John Doe" has no knowledge regarding over penetration, stress management, and situational awareness, WE, the innocent bystander, may be caught in the crossfire.

I think there is a great deal of responsibility and knowledge REQIURED to carry concealed. The great state of Arizona has always allowed pretty free possession and aquisition of firearms; If you're over 21 and in good legal standing, by all means, go buy that gun you want. Oh you want to carry it around with out without undergoing some type of class, fine, but it has to be visible.

I believe that CCW CLASSES should be mandatory to carry concealed. Besides, the class is affordable, the state processes requests quickly (at least in my case), and it is not overly difficult to obtain a CCW permit in Arizona.
 
qcpunk,

First, the age to obtain handguns and open carry in Arizona is 18, not 21.

Second, the problems you describe simply do not exist in Alaska and Vermont which already have unlicensed concealed carry.

Third, why is there a difference regarding "safety" between an openly carried firearm and a concealed firearm? Please point out how any of the "concerns" that you have change between concealed and open carry:
If this "John Doe" has no knowledge regarding over penetration, stress management, and situational awareness, WE, the innocent bystander, may be caught in the crossfire.
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Of course it is a good idea

I carry a gun everyday, not because I plan on shooting anyone. Of course there are legal and moral repercussions if you shoot someone that is why you avoid it at all costs. The second admendment should not be restricted. No one would dare to regulate the first. There are people that sit in front of mosques in NY trying to recruit people to "terrorize" americans and its perfectly legal but it disgusts me. I am just saying its funny how the goverment is allowed to manipulate certain admentments. Not to sound paranoid but if someone carries a gun around with bad intentions they are going to did wheather its legal or not, might as well let average joe have a gun to.
 
I also feel that there is a huge exageration to the effects of medication. It takes like three weeks for that stuff to get into a persons system and if it is a minor they are monitored by parents/guardians.
 
Wake up tff people

:-) you cant stop a criminal from conceal carrying, and I am sure all would say
that is just the way it is. If guns are outlawed only outlaws...blah blah.
why encourage any regulation that will restrict any rights of the law abiding, in the odd chance that it will trickle down to the non-law abiding.
when they do their crime, they become a criminal, not before. if you say, they are already felons, then having the firearm is a crime, not only when they possess it, but when they have access to it.

Dont hold me down to make the bad guy get an even chance at me.
There's no other way to put it. its a jungle out there, especially in Cochise County.
 
Foghorn, I most certainly do agree with your point regarding criminals. Of course they will continue to obtain, conceal, and use firearms in illegal ways. It wouldn't matter if guns were completely outlawed, they would still get ahold of them. But that's what makes them criminals..... lol

Navy, In Arizona you MUST be 21 years old to purchase handguns and handgun ammunition. However, a person may carry a handgun at 18 years of age. Absolutely agreed.

I definately know some people who have absolutely no business carrying a firearm out in public. Unforunately, after talking with them regarding the proposed bill, they have ever intention of doing so. These are people who have the shortest fuses, extreme "mood swings," and become a liability to the rest of us. And, YES, these are people I know personally. Yes, they currently own one or two guns each; and yes, going out to the desert to shoot them in a safe manner is great, but that is atleast a semi-controlled environment. When asked if they would be willing to take the class anyways (assuming the bill passed), not one of them said "yeah sure." The answer was "Why? I dont have to!" across the board.

All I'm saying here is that a little education goes a long, long way. I don't believe that taking an eight hour class for $80 and mailing in a cashiers check for $60 to DPS is all that difficult. I also don't believe that it, in any way, hinders One's right to own, buy, and enjoy firearms of any type.
 
qcpunk said:
Navy, In Arizona you MUST be 21 years old to purchase handguns and handgun ammunition.
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qcpunk, you are confusing the Federal law prohibiting sales of handguns and handgun ammunition BY FFLs to persons under 21 years of age with Arizona statutes. Arizona statutes only prohibit firearms sales/gifts to those under 18 years of age. Thus, in Arizona, a person who is 18 years or older may purchase any firearm and ammunition, handguns included, in private sales from other Arizona residents. If you can post a statute that states otherwise, I would be pleased to see it. For your edification, the applicable Arizona statutes are posted below.

In Arizona you MUST be 18 years old to purchase handguns and handgun ammunition.

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/1/00215.htm&Title=1&DocType=ARS

1-215. Definitions
In the statutes and laws of this state, unless the context otherwise requires:
22. "Minor" means a person under the age of eighteen years.

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/13/03109.htm&Title=13&DocType=ARS

13-3109. Sale or gift of firearm to minor; classification

A. Except as provided in subsection C of this section, a person who sells or gives to a minor, without written consent of the minor's parent or legal guardian, a firearm, ammunition or a toy pistol by which dangerous and explosive substances may be discharged is guilty of a class 6 felony.

B. Nothing in this section shall be construed to require reporting sales of firearms, nor shall registration of firearms or firearms sales be required.

C. The temporary transfer of firearms and ammunition by firearms safety instructors, hunter safety instructors, competition coaches or their assistants shall be allowed if the minor's parent or guardian has given consent for the minor to participate in activities such as firearms or hunting safety courses, firearms competition or training. With the consent of the minor's parent or guardian, the temporary transfer of firearms and ammunition by an adult accompanying minors engaged in hunting or formal or informal target shooting activities shall be allowed for those purposes.

In addition, Federal law also permits private handgun/ammunition sales to persons 18 years of age or older:

18 USC 922(x):
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

(x)
(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile—
(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
(2) It shall be unlawful for any person who is a juvenile to knowingly possess—
(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
(5) For purposes of this subsection, the term “juvenile” means a person who is less than 18 years of age.
 
Navy, I would challenge you to find 3 young adults, between the ages of 18 and 20 to go from store to store trying to buy 9x19, .38 special, and .380 ammunition. See what they come up with. I was that age not too long ago, and having been raised with guns of all types in the house, raised as a hunter and shooter from the age of 6, I have dealt with trying to find sidearm ammunition for hunting excursions with brother and friends.

This is all beside the point anyways. The bill proposed has nothing to do with minors, the purchase, or sale of firearms and/or ammunition. My main focus here is the importance of education and responsibility with regards to carrying a concealed handgun......

the problems you describe simply do not exist in Alaska and Vermont
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Well, I don't know anything about the people from Vermont, but I do know the great state of Alaska pretty well. And yes, you're absolutely right, these situations are far less common in Alaska. I think there are a few factors at play here, but here is the one that comes most to mind... The population density is FAR less in Alaska than in Arizona, therefore you are less likely to come across such situations or the described persons. Compare that to the Pheonix, being ranked as the 5th most populated city in the nation.
 
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Navy, I would challenge you to find 3 young adults, between the ages of 18 and 20 to go from store to store trying to buy 9x19, .38 special, and .380 ammunition. See what they come up with.
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qcpunk,

They better come out empty handed, because, as I stated, which you obviously did not digest is that it is against FEDERAL law for a LICENSED dealer to sell handguns or handgun ammunition to persons under 21 years of age. HOWEVER, it is perfectly legal for those 18 to 20 years of age to buy handguns and handgun ammunition from private parties, and handgun ammunition from unlicensed dealers in ammunition.

You, obviously, have very strong feelings about what you think is right, even when shown the FACTS that indicate otherwise. Maybe you should consider opening your mind to the possibility that you might be wrong.
 
Need I quote myself?

This is all beside the point anyways. The bill proposed has nothing to do with minors, the purchase, or sale of firearms and/or ammunition. My main focus here is the importance of education and responsibility with regards to carrying a concealed handgun......
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I'm familiar with Red Herrring too.
 
All I'm saying here is that a little education goes a long, long way. I don't believe that taking an eight hour class for $80 and mailing in a cashiers check for $60 to DPS is all that difficult. I also don't believe that it, in any way, hinders One's right to own, buy, and enjoy firearms of any type.
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How about this then.... RIGHTS cannot be TAXED and/or limited to those who meet some arbitrary standards set by the government. RIGHTS are those actions which persons are free to exercise without requiring governmental permission. The act of licensing and taxing an action makes that action become a PRIVILEGE that an elite group pays for. And it does not matter how wide or expansive that elite group is, those that pay for the privilege are still more elite than those that don't or can't.

So, do you believe in the RIGHT to BEAR (carry) arms or do you believe in making it a privilege that one must pay a tax to exercise? Is the right to bear arms fulfilled by allowing open carry only without a permit?
 
So, do you believe in the RIGHT to BEAR (carry) arms or do you believe in making it a privilege that one must pay a tax to exercise? Is the right to bear arms fulfilled by allowing open carry only without a permit?
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Towards the second question, Yes, I believe so.

I do not believe that it inhibits a person's right to own and bear arms. They still have every right to purchase any firearm they would like, they can even carry openly (almost)where ever they want to go. Nobody is making them pay a tax for that. Nor is anybody forcing them to apply for a CCW.

I just feel that there are people here which take full advantage of the new laws in an unjust manner. I am 24 and my brother is 21. We are both CCW holders. And unforunately, I think there are too many people, especially in our age group, who will jump to the extremes and use deadly force when it is not necessary. Many of these people simply do not possess the maturity to carry concealed.

Maybe to put "these people" into perspective, I am referring to the sort of people discussed in the following thread.... http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=403785 The sort of people which will do whatever they can to start or escalate situations.

But at any rate, I would like to thank Navy, and everyone else for their time on this thread. As you pointed out Navy, I do feel passionately about it, and I appreciate everyone's input and opinions. A round of beers (_)3 to all :)
 
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