AZ- NRA/ILA Alert: Lead Ammunition

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azredhawk44

Moderator
I just got this email from NRA-ILA.

Those of you in AZ, this is serious stuff. Get out and attend one of these meetings, and bring a friend/son/daughter/wife/other with you. Show some numbers and scare these cockroaches back into their holes.

Arizona Game and Fish Commission to Discuss Lead Ammunition and Shooting Range Issues!
Commission Discussing Issues Concerning Gun Owners and Hunters!
On Friday, January 18th, 2008, the Arizona Game and Fish Commission (AZGFC) will be holding a public meeting to discuss issues concerning gun owners and hunters. Of greatest interest are briefings on shooting range funding and development (Item #3) as well as general issues associated with lead from spent ammunition (Item #10). Since last year, when California passed its unjustified ban on lead ammunition for all hunting in condor range, the NRA has been keeping a close eye on the same issue in Arizona. The Grand Canyon State has an experimental population of condors and some extremists in Arizona are advocating for a California-style ban! While the Commission agenda does not specifically mention a potential ban in Item #10, gun owners and hunters must be vigilant to ensure that this bad public policy does not spread!

Please take the time and attend the AZGFC meeting and make your voice heard on these important issues. The meeting will be held at the Arizona Game and Fish Department at 5000 W. Carefree Highway, Phoenix, AZ, beginning at 8:00 a.m. A copy of the agenda can be found on the Commission's website at http://www.azgfd.gov/inside_azgfd/meeting_agenda.shtml
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Arizona Red Alert!!!!

This Back Dooring Hunters BS Has To Stop!!!! I plan on being there!!!!

Arizona Game and Fish Commission to Discuss Lead Ammunition and Shooting Range Issues!

Commission Discussing Issues Concerning Gun Owners and Hunters!

On Friday, January 18th, 2008, the Arizona Game and Fish Commission (AZGFC) will be holding a public meeting to discuss issues concerning gun owners and hunters. Of greatest interest are briefings on shooting range funding and development (Item #3) as well as general issues associated with lead from spent ammunition (Item #10). Since last year, when California passed its unjustified ban on lead ammunition for all hunting in condor range, the NRA has been keeping a close eye on the same issue in Arizona. The Grand Canyon State has an experimental population of condors and some extremists in Arizona are advocating for a California-style ban! While the Commission agenda does not specifically mention a potential ban in Item #10, gun owners and hunters must be vigilant to ensure that this bad public policy does not spread!



Please take the time and attend the AZGFC meeting and make your voice heard on these important issues. The meeting will be held at the Arizona Game and Fish Department at 5000 W. Carefree Highway, Phoenix, AZ, beginning at 8:00 a.m. A copy of the agenda can be found on the Commission's website at Meeting Agenda
 
while i understand its only "talking about talking about", it isn't a suprise that the cali style "arms control" is spreading. the political atmosphere is especially ripe for it on the left coast it seems.
 
Your absolutely right that it is just a discussion about it, however we have all seen discussion become action on these things far too often.
 
very true....i wish all of you 2A folks the best. i hope that the majority will have the the ability to knock this nonsense back to cali.
 
I live in New Mexico! Please God Don't let it get here! I shoot lot of .22 and don't intend on stopping in my lifetime!

Fight! Fight!:D


Yep the Cancer spreds!:confused:

Do condors really tast like Turkey?
 
Why does it has to be lead that you shoot out? Lead is very poisoneous. Why not a steel core with a jacket of copper? Or whatever they suggest... A longer bullet would make up for lost weight.
 
First off,lead in it's pure form is not dangerous. it is in certain oxides that it becomes dangerous if ingested. as for steel, a bullet to work as well as a lead bullet would need to that specific gravity. Steel isn't even close. it's not just weight it's specific gravity, or density. heavy is better. go get a periodic table and look at the elements near lead. There are some. like gold. you want to buy gold bullets. no, I don't think so. so that gives us the other reasons for lead. it's relatively cheap it has a low melting point so it is cheaper to manufacture bullets. the list goes on. Lead melts at 650 degrees iron around 3000. to give you an idea as to how inert lead bullets are. they are still pulling bullets out of the battlefield at gettysburg and the rifling is still there. there have been several studies done at very old rifle ranges. go down over 6" into the soil and the lead levels are normal. we spread more lead around the country burning lead compounds in gas then we ever have by shooting bullets. These compounds are much more dangerous than the lead alloys used to make bullets. as an alloy is not a compound but a mixture. a very real difference.

Why does it has to be lead that you shoot out? Lead is very poisoneous. Why not a steel core with a jacket of copper? Or whatever they suggest... A longer bullet would make up for lost weight.
 
Why does it has to be lead that you shoot out? Lead is very poisoneous. Why not a steel core with a jacket of copper? Or whatever they suggest... A longer bullet would make up for lost weight.
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Rifling in your barrel is designed for a certain length of bullet. Specifically, a certain amount of bearing surface.

A longer bullet that weighs the same since it is less dense will not spin properly and will be wildly inaccurate in comparison to a lead bullet from that same barrel.
 
Why does it has to be lead that you shoot out? Lead is very poisoneous. Why not a steel core with a jacket of copper? Or whatever they suggest... A longer bullet would make up for lost weight.
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Lead is used because it is both soft and dense. You want a soft metal (though this can be the jacket, if it's thick enough) that won't wear the barrel and rifling much. A dense metal gives you more momentum in the projectile, allowing for more accuracy in long-range shooting and also more penetration in soft targets.

Lead is about 45% more dense than steel. It is also fairly common and inexpensive. It could be replaced with pure silver, which has comparable density, or alloys of denser metals such as gold, platinum, tungsten, molybdenum, mercury, uranium, or plutonium. For obvious reasons, this is not appealing.

Steel is illegal in many cases (handgun and some rifle ammo), since it's hardness makes for good armor penetration.

Significantly longer bullets are undesirable because they won't fit in magazines or chamber properly.
 
Yellowfin said:
This is what you get for letting those people in your state.
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So what, you're advocating that we emulate the China, and require government permission to live or work in a place? Or is it just for "those people," and rights should be denied to people who'se politics differ from yours?
 
No, I'm saying that such politics and their purveyors be societally rejected and treated like the KKK or neo Nazis rather than embraced. There is certainly room for different politics, but some questions are not mere matters of different opinion. There are views that are clearly wrong. You could be of the opinion that tin is a more suitable material for building a bridge than steel and you can certainly think so, but that doesn't make it any bit correct nor should it be used because it is in fact verifiably wrong. One can wish an avocado to grow from an orange tree and be convinced it can and expect it to but believe and try as you may it won't no matter how much you may want it to. There can be difference of thought on the matter but one thought is right and one thought is wrong. It's easy to say "Well who are you to say?" as a diversion from the issue and to conveniently declare a draw, preferring no decision at all, but that does not determine fact, does it? The "Not everything is black and white" or "the truth is somewhere in the middle" mantras people spout today are a horrid cop out, an abdication of ideas having conclusions and consequences.
 
The "Not everything is black and white" or "the truth is somewhere in the middle" mantras people spout today are a horrid cop out, an abdication of ideas having conclusions and consequences.
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This is 100% true and I applaud you for pointing it out Yellowfin.

It was once the case in our country that spirited and empassioned debate occurred in our city halls, state legislatures and Congress. People defended ideas because they had merit to them, and the idea with the greatest merit would ultimately prevail.

Aberrations of this principle are manifested from time to time in:
The three-fifths compromise of 1787
The Assault Weapons Ban of 1994
McCain/Feingold Incumbent Protection Act

Compromise has no business being even considered when one is enumerating the rights of Americans.

Now, how does that apply to the Condor, migrant Californian politics and lead ammo?
 
Already today several companies sell 100% copper bullets. Corbon makes the popular DPX (I think it's called) round. Would it kill you to shoot that?
 
Corbon does not sell reloading equipment, and every round of their ammunition is premium-priced. They cost about twice as much as "regular" commercial grade ammunition, which again costs twice as much (or more) as my reloaded ammunition.

And that doesn't even take the thousands of rounds of .22LR into account that I shoot every year.

Yes, it would kill me. I heartily oppose any lead ban on hunting and plinking ammunition.
 
Lead was used for plates and spoons for years, it is not that toxic. I seem to remember reading an article about testing done on duck being inconclusive.

Lead poisoning in people normally comes from eating or breathing lead that is broken down into a product like old paints. Old tin cans are sealed with lead (like 1900s) and cause very little trouble, however some items that where acidic would break down the lead, like tomato's.

An example of lead handling vs. lead poisoning. I know two people that have encounters with lead, one is a roofer and handles lead everyday in the form of roof vents bending them to fit with his hands, the other is a stay at home mom that likes arts and crafts. The roofer has had blood work done in the past for an unrelated health issue, the blood work showed no problems with lead exposure. The stay at home mom got lead poisoning from sanding the paint off an old chair one time. Lead comes in many forms, most from industrial waste of decades and centuries past.

People who get lead poisoning from shooting are normally getting it from the primers not the bullets, I eat lead almost every time I eat something I shot, its not something I worry about. Also why would a bird eat lead? It would just look like a rock right?
 
Lead was used for plates and spoons for years
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Actually that was the traditional pewter alloy which was a mixture of lead and other metals. It was not particularly dangerous as long as the foods were not excessively acidic.

The most dangerous lead product isn't paint dust but rather tetraethyl lead, which was used for most of the 20th century in gasoline. Soil in cities and along rural highways is so contaminated with this organic lead that it will be centuries before it is clean again. OTOH the environmental lead exposure to a condor as result of lead bullets is laughably small.

What you have to realize is there is a small cadre of sociopaths, maybe 50,000 in the western henisphere, who spend all their time and effort recruiting to the cause of animal rightism. They have an interlocking delusional system which makes it impossible to reason with them and their long term goal is to stop all hunting, farm animal production, pet ownership and animal related medical research.
 
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