Author—Gun Mistakes
- Thread starter DaleA
- Start date
Hmmm. I've never fired a Cordite round. Do they still use it? I'm thinking OLD degrading rare collectable ammo I probably would not shoot.
I don't know the smell of Cordite. Isn't it nitrocellulose based? Like really long extruded smokeless? (I'm asking because I don't know)
Would the smell be much different?
Black powder is different. Sulphur, mellowing to alder, with a hint of urine finish....To me,smells like shooting/fun!
But then I like Liederkranz cheese...which is akin to Limburger. Put it on a saltine!! It leaves your mouth tasting like one of the cloths a Russian Infantry Soldier uses in lieu of sox after a month in the field.
Which most would say is "Not too good"
But,its not over! Because nothing else makes a cold PBR or Old Style or Old Milwaukee cheap swill beer taste so darn good!!
Maybe Hoppes #9 is a chaser for Cordite!
Or maybe an early writer coined the phrase "Acrid smell of Cordite" and it just stuck. "That there Cordite! Its Acrid,you know!!
Ya,sure, by Golly! Did you hear about Ollie and Lena?
I don't know the smell of Cordite. Isn't it nitrocellulose based? Like really long extruded smokeless? (I'm asking because I don't know)
Would the smell be much different?
Black powder is different. Sulphur, mellowing to alder, with a hint of urine finish....To me,smells like shooting/fun!
But then I like Liederkranz cheese...which is akin to Limburger. Put it on a saltine!! It leaves your mouth tasting like one of the cloths a Russian Infantry Soldier uses in lieu of sox after a month in the field.
Which most would say is "Not too good"
But,its not over! Because nothing else makes a cold PBR or Old Style or Old Milwaukee cheap swill beer taste so darn good!!
Maybe Hoppes #9 is a chaser for Cordite!
Or maybe an early writer coined the phrase "Acrid smell of Cordite" and it just stuck. "That there Cordite! Its Acrid,you know!!
Ya,sure, by Golly! Did you hear about Ollie and Lena?
Jim Watson
New member
I don't know what Cordite smells like. It is nitrocellulose + nitroglycerine with mineral jelly (like Vaseline) and a bit of residual acetone. Early formulations contained some camphor but that did not last long.
I read that a malingerer could chew a strand of Cordite and get pale, sweaty, and nauseous, which got him sick call. Must have been tough duty he was dodging.
The last Gun Gaffe I saw was the hero chambering a round in his Thompson.
I read that a malingerer could chew a strand of Cordite and get pale, sweaty, and nauseous, which got him sick call. Must have been tough duty he was dodging.
The last Gun Gaffe I saw was the hero chambering a round in his Thompson.
Cordite was used in British/Commonweath ammunition through WWII, though I will have to do some digging to find out when it stopped being used as the primary rifle propellent. The 50s I think, but am not sure, at this time.
Cordite does have a unique smell, different from other smokeless powders, and of course different from black powder.
"the smell of Cordite" has been a stock phrase in writing (particularly fiction) since the time Cordite replaced black powder. Today's writers continue to use it, because they either don't understand what it actually means, or more likely, they don't care.
Cordite came in long "cords" thin rods (think uncooked angel hair pasta), a bundle of them were inserted into the case and then cut off to fit. (by hand, with a knife) there are pictures from the Battle of Britain (1940) of English women making .303 ammunition this way.
If you shoot enough different powders, you will come to regconize that different powders have different smells after firing, even ones with very similar chemical construction can have noticeably different smells.
One example is IMR 4350. In my experience, it's powder smoke has an "ammonia" tang to it that other IMR powders do not.
Cordite has its own unique smell. I can't really describe it, only that is it something which, once you have smelled it you won't mistake for anything else.
Modern fiction writers, rarely smell gunsmoke of any kind, let alone Cordite, I think...
Cordite does have a unique smell, different from other smokeless powders, and of course different from black powder.
"the smell of Cordite" has been a stock phrase in writing (particularly fiction) since the time Cordite replaced black powder. Today's writers continue to use it, because they either don't understand what it actually means, or more likely, they don't care.
Cordite came in long "cords" thin rods (think uncooked angel hair pasta), a bundle of them were inserted into the case and then cut off to fit. (by hand, with a knife) there are pictures from the Battle of Britain (1940) of English women making .303 ammunition this way.
If you shoot enough different powders, you will come to regconize that different powders have different smells after firing, even ones with very similar chemical construction can have noticeably different smells.
One example is IMR 4350. In my experience, it's powder smoke has an "ammonia" tang to it that other IMR powders do not.
Cordite has its own unique smell. I can't really describe it, only that is it something which, once you have smelled it you won't mistake for anything else.
Modern fiction writers, rarely smell gunsmoke of any kind, let alone Cordite, I think...
Jim Watson
New member
As I recall, Cordite loads were specified by the length of bundle to the 20th of an inch.
Inserted in the case before the bottleneck was formed.
There was chopped Cordite for revolver and small rifle loading.
Inserted in the case before the bottleneck was formed.
There was chopped Cordite for revolver and small rifle loading.
Dfariswheel
New member
A little known artifact of history......
Cordite was the propelling charge in the first gun-type atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima.
The scientists decided that Cordite had properties that made it the best choice for the specific purpose.
I never heard in what actual form the Cordite charge was in, but I doubt it was in small arms stick form.
Even "Gun" writers often come up with howlers.
One of the most knowledgeable is Stephen Hunter of Bob Lee Swagger fame.
In many of his books some gun related details are just wrong.
I suspect the mistakes are due to the author concentrating on the story plot, which to be fair is his job.
Cordite was the propelling charge in the first gun-type atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima.
The scientists decided that Cordite had properties that made it the best choice for the specific purpose.
I never heard in what actual form the Cordite charge was in, but I doubt it was in small arms stick form.
Even "Gun" writers often come up with howlers.
One of the most knowledgeable is Stephen Hunter of Bob Lee Swagger fame.
In many of his books some gun related details are just wrong.
I suspect the mistakes are due to the author concentrating on the story plot, which to be fair is his job.
Jim Watson
New member
They made Cordite for artillery so that makes sense. There were grains so large as to be used for solid fuel rocket motors.
I don’t know what cordite smells like, more like I don’t remember, even been around artillery firing. I wasn’t an artillery soldier, just my last unit I was a support person in an artillery battery.
I do distinctly remember the smell of the smoke from small arms. Every now and then I catch that exact smell when firing my guns at home. It does seem to me that some ammunition smells different, or I don’t notice a smell.
Anyway, I read a lot of books, and my current work is so mind numbing, we are allowed to listen to headphones while working, so I sometimes go through 4 or 5 audiobooks a week.
I listen to genres that I wouldn’t have normally gotten into if I weren’t consuming audiobooks at such a high rate. I work a minimum of ten hours a day at the same workbench.
I believe “…smell the cordite” or similar phrasing, is the most common phrase across any genres in which a gun might be used.
You’d be surprised how far into the future M4 carbines are used lol.
I do distinctly remember the smell of the smoke from small arms. Every now and then I catch that exact smell when firing my guns at home. It does seem to me that some ammunition smells different, or I don’t notice a smell.
Anyway, I read a lot of books, and my current work is so mind numbing, we are allowed to listen to headphones while working, so I sometimes go through 4 or 5 audiobooks a week.
I listen to genres that I wouldn’t have normally gotten into if I weren’t consuming audiobooks at such a high rate. I work a minimum of ten hours a day at the same workbench.
I believe “…smell the cordite” or similar phrasing, is the most common phrase across any genres in which a gun might be used.
You’d be surprised how far into the future M4 carbines are used lol.
You’d be surprised how far into the future M4 carbines are used lol.
If it works, don't fix it. How many people are injured every year with clubs or stones? Been using those as weapons for at least 10,000 years...
I know of at least one story set 2000 years plus after the invention of space travel where a 1911 pistol, by description, is used because the low technology level wouldn't be detected by the "bad guys" in a specific setting. The energy sources for the more typical "pulsar" (electromagnetic apparently) would have given things away.
that would be Honor Harrington, I believe. Great stories but for me, after the first dozen or so I found the author falling into a predictable pattern, one book would be nearly all background / politics and little action, then the next would be mostly action (of some sort) then back to politics, repeating the cycle.
Jim Watson
New member
Kind of like kryptonite.
The writers give their characters and their equipment all sorts of capabilities, then spend the rest of the story looking for limitations.
Yancy Derringer's faithful sidekick Pahoo had a sawn off shotgun under his blanket that would deliver a dinner plate size pattern at about any distance. We know the pattern size because he hardly ever hit anybody with it and the "split buckshot" landed on the far wall.
Hugh O'Brian as Wyatt Earp had a sensible deputy who rode a mule and carried a long barreled shotgun. But Wyatt got in all the gunfights. Star power.
There was one otherwise forgettable story in which the remnant forces of good were armed with ARs set up to fire flechettes. Range was shorter than with a bullet but they had under barrel grenade launchers to handle the tough jobs.
Larry Niven said he wasn't going to write any more 'Known Space' stories. That what with hullmetal, scrith, and stasis field reinforcement, anything involving strength of materials was already solved.
The writers give their characters and their equipment all sorts of capabilities, then spend the rest of the story looking for limitations.
Yancy Derringer's faithful sidekick Pahoo had a sawn off shotgun under his blanket that would deliver a dinner plate size pattern at about any distance. We know the pattern size because he hardly ever hit anybody with it and the "split buckshot" landed on the far wall.
Hugh O'Brian as Wyatt Earp had a sensible deputy who rode a mule and carried a long barreled shotgun. But Wyatt got in all the gunfights. Star power.
There was one otherwise forgettable story in which the remnant forces of good were armed with ARs set up to fire flechettes. Range was shorter than with a bullet but they had under barrel grenade launchers to handle the tough jobs.
Larry Niven said he wasn't going to write any more 'Known Space' stories. That what with hullmetal, scrith, and stasis field reinforcement, anything involving strength of materials was already solved.
I allow a lot of leeway in science fiction, but a lot less so in fiction ostensibly set in our shared reality and historical time.
Don Pendleton's Executioner series got most gun names and terms right, but what his hero could DO with them was well beyond reality more often than not.
Ian Fleming said a .32acp hits like a brick through a plate glass window and called a .38 snubnose a "cannon". Most Americans would disagree with that, I think.
Jerry Ahern's "Survivalist" was very good about guns and equipment, Ahern being a gun writer he got things right about that but after the first few stories, seems like every fight turned into the hero going through all his guns and ammo (rifle, three or four handguns,) and finishing off the last bad guy or two with his commando knife. Once, or maybe twice, ok. Time after time? sorry, too formulaic for my taste.
Frequently many writers are subject matter experts about nothing but writing, and include technical details to impress the reader, but when they screw them up, the impression is not a favorable one.
Don Pendleton's Executioner series got most gun names and terms right, but what his hero could DO with them was well beyond reality more often than not.
Ian Fleming said a .32acp hits like a brick through a plate glass window and called a .38 snubnose a "cannon". Most Americans would disagree with that, I think.
Jerry Ahern's "Survivalist" was very good about guns and equipment, Ahern being a gun writer he got things right about that but after the first few stories, seems like every fight turned into the hero going through all his guns and ammo (rifle, three or four handguns,) and finishing off the last bad guy or two with his commando knife. Once, or maybe twice, ok. Time after time? sorry, too formulaic for my taste.
Frequently many writers are subject matter experts about nothing but writing, and include technical details to impress the reader, but when they screw them up, the impression is not a favorable one.
IIRC some period from the late 1940s to 60's "cannon" was for certain groups of "gangsters" a street slang term for any pistol of .38 or larger caliber. From a dimly remembered "detective" magazine story at my grandpa's house.
Jim Watson
New member
Some are TOO good. They read like a catalog, diluting the flow of the story.
None of them have credibility because none of them mention launching a detent across a room into the great unknown.
None of them mention that unfired cartridge that you lost in a fender well 20years ago that’s still there today, unbeknownst to the current owner.
But on a more serious note, what is worse than gun inaccuracies, are some of the gunfight and battle scenes in these stories, some are very tedious and I want to just get back to the main plot.
None of them mention that unfired cartridge that you lost in a fender well 20years ago that’s still there today, unbeknownst to the current owner.
But on a more serious note, what is worse than gun inaccuracies, are some of the gunfight and battle scenes in these stories, some are very tedious and I want to just get back to the main plot.
I've provided some input for a writer but ultimately there came a point where it was obvious that in order to make his story flow properly he was going to have to mess with some of the nitty gritty gun details.
I think there has to be some sort of balance. If someone's writing fiction, as opposed to history or a documentary, they get to play with reality to some extent simply by virtue of the fact that it's fiction. I think it's dumb to put manual safeties on revolvers or talk about the cylinder in an autopistol--there's no need for errors like that, but if the author needs a silencer to be whisper quiet to make his plot work, or something like that, I can see taking that kind of liberty with the facts.
I ended up giving him some good facts but telling him not to let the facts ruin his story line.
I think there has to be some sort of balance. If someone's writing fiction, as opposed to history or a documentary, they get to play with reality to some extent simply by virtue of the fact that it's fiction. I think it's dumb to put manual safeties on revolvers or talk about the cylinder in an autopistol--there's no need for errors like that, but if the author needs a silencer to be whisper quiet to make his plot work, or something like that, I can see taking that kind of liberty with the facts.
I ended up giving him some good facts but telling him not to let the facts ruin his story line.
Dfariswheel
New member
One error just grates on my nerves...... European history writers always describe Nazi pistols as "revolvers", even when it's clear they were armed with an auto.
Some of today's writers usually get guns right, but as above, too often it starts to sound like a catalog listing of dream guns and knives.
Jack Carr writes entertaining books and as a retired SEAL he should know, but he tends to the cataloging.
Larry Correia does some fun Sci-Fi and as a former shooting instructor and gun dealer he knows his guns.
It's funny that so much Sci-Fi has people running around in the far future hacking at each other with swords.
The sword, as an effective weapon of war ended with the American Civil War and the perfection of Colt's revolver.
The Union army found out just how much the sword's day was over when they did saber charges against Missouri guerrillas armed with multiple revolvers and got shot to pieces.
Some of today's writers usually get guns right, but as above, too often it starts to sound like a catalog listing of dream guns and knives.
Jack Carr writes entertaining books and as a retired SEAL he should know, but he tends to the cataloging.
Larry Correia does some fun Sci-Fi and as a former shooting instructor and gun dealer he knows his guns.
It's funny that so much Sci-Fi has people running around in the far future hacking at each other with swords.
The sword, as an effective weapon of war ended with the American Civil War and the perfection of Colt's revolver.
The Union army found out just how much the sword's day was over when they did saber charges against Missouri guerrillas armed with multiple revolvers and got shot to pieces.