ATF Project Gunrunner

If Newell had dismantled anything, he might have an excuse for the multiple felonies perped by himself and others in handling the firearms, and for the management up the chain in sanctioning this conduct, then trying to hide it.

As it is, he can write all the self-acquittals he wants. Nothing changes. Obama, Holder, Napolitano all want to pretend there is nothing to see, and the determination which they have displayed to keep the **** buried indeed defines it as a ****, a bad one, with Newell's prints all over it.

In this life or the next, accounts will be settled.
 
What gets me is that Napolitano, Holder, Obama, and Hillary, have not even provided any "fake" outrage over a program which dumped firearms into a foreign nation without their knowledge or approval. Unless of course, they had knowledge and had at least given tacit approval or stayed out of it all together for specific reasons. Napolitano, when first called in to testify to congress, was asked if she had contacted BP Agent Terry's family, to which she had to sheepishly reply, "No." He worked in her organization. He was killed as a result of a program which she SHOULD have been notified about, as the head of Homeland Security. Yet, she takes no action to contact his family to offer any apologies or condolences. I suspect she knew exactly what was going on. Once it broke open, she hid in the shadows as much as she could. Hillary hasn't said BOO about it, though she was crowing about "illegal" weapons flowing into Mexico and how that must be stopped. Well, Hillary, what have you to say now? (Crickets chirping).
 
Holder held in contempt of Congress. 2 Republicans voted "No", 17 Democrats voted "Yes", 109 Dems abstained/did not vote.

Roll Call Vote #441: http://clerk.house.gov/floorsummary/floor.aspx

255-67 (1 voted Present, 109 Not Voting)

The "No" votes are:

Baldwin
Barber
Berkley
Berman
Bishop (NY)
Blumenauer
Bonamici
Braley (IA)
Capps
Cohen
Connolly (VA)
Cooper
Costello
Courtney
Cuellar
DeFazio
DeLauro
Deutch
Dicks
Dingell
Doggett
Eshoo
Farr
Green, Gene
Heinrich
Higgins
Himes
Hirono
Holden
Holt
Langevin
Larsen (WA)
LaTourette
Loebsack
Lofgren, Zoe
Luján
Lynch
McDermott
McNerney
Michaud
Miller (NC)
Miller, George
Moran
Murphy (CT)
Nadler
Pastor (AZ)
Perlmutter
Quigley
Rigell
Rothman (NJ)
Ryan (OH)
Sanchez, Loretta
Schrader
Schwartz
Sherman
Shuler
Slaughter
Smith (WA)
Speier
Sutton
Thompson (CA)
Tierney
Tsongas
Visclosky
Wasserman Schultz
Waxman
Welch
 
Bartholomew Roberts said:
One of the many problems I had with this story is that the reporter continually used subjective adjectives (weak, ineffective) to describe gun laws or penalties for violating them; but didn't share the actual laws with the reader. For example, she states there is no federal firearms law for trafficking firearms; but she doesn't tell the reader that it is illegal to knowingly transfer a firearm to a prohibited person (nor does she mention how FBI rigged the NICS system to sell directly to prohibited people). She tells the reader about straw purchasing very loosely but says the penalties are "weak." She doesn't tell the reader that you can get up to 10 years in a federal prison for it. She blames the NRA for not allowing "a centralized database of firearms sales (i.e. registration), which tends to make her bias a bit apparent to me.
And I assume that's technically up to ten years per count, so a guy who acted as a straw buyer for 20 guns could (in theory) be facing 200 years if convicted on all counts and the sentences were imposed to run consecutively rather than concurrently ...
 
I never really watched CSPAN until all this and I must say it is both enlightening and frightening to see some of the factors at play. I am glad this wasnt a simple party line vote with a few crossing the line, the numbers speak pretty well..

Mr. Holder Im sure will get his pardon one day but the truth it seems is actually going to come out at some point.
 
It appears that although 17 Democrats voted for contempt (the graded vote) only 4 voted for the resolution to sue in civil court for the documents. Likewise the two Republicans who voted against (OH and VA) contempt voted for the civil suit according to the WSJ.

And in other strange news, former NRA Board of Director (and AWB supporter) John Dingell-D accused Issa of being politically motivated and defended Holder on the House floor. Dingell, who is the original source of the "jack-booted thugs" comment as applied to ATF, apparently thinks Holder is A-OK.
 
An attorney with whom I work raised an interesting point: The House voted in favor of criminal contempt. Had it been civil contempt, then the contempt could have been purged by Holder's delivery of the subpoenaed documents, assuming that I recall the distinction between criminal and civil contempt correctly. IOW, because this is criminal contempt and not civil, turning over the documents will not purge the contempt. In that case, will the documents be turned over?

Inquiring minds want to know.
 
In that case, will the documents be turned over?
We may never see them. At this point, the administration has circled its wagons, and while the contempt vote feels good, it won't have any teeth unless they can find someone to actually enforce it.

What they should be doing is finding a way to charge Newell, Gillette, or Voth. Let one of them twist a bit and see if they talk.
 
At the risk of repeating the already mentioned AG Eric Holder, as I understand, has been cited for both civil and criminal contempt of congress. What happens now is, I suppose, anyone’s guess, however a press conference held by Holder sounded interesting as with the following.

He described the process, by which he was cited as a politically inspired witch hunt, and I believe went on to offer that the American people deserve better. I agree, the people of this country deserve better than they have had with respect to their constitutional rights from both the AG and The President. I suspect Mr. Holder would disagree, as did New York Democratic Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney, in her remarks. People are entitled to their own opinions.

As to congressional investigations into Operation Fast & Furious being politically motivated, as Holder offered, possibly so, but he conveniently overlooks the following. How might the Democrats have reacted to the same sort of stupid stunt carried forth by a Republican AG and a Republican President? I suspect we would be seeing the same performance from the Democrats. As to the legitimate interests of the people of this country, they appear to come in dead last, if they even get out of the starting gate. In any case, Operation F & F violated the laws of the U.S. As well as the laws of Mexico, no mention of this from AG Holder, whose remaining days in office are few in number, it likely turning out to be “under the bus with him”.

As to the political aspects of the thing, something else unmentioned by Holder is the following. Undermining The Second Amendment, along with a restoration of the so-called Assault Weapons Ban constitutes the hearts desire of this administration, being a long sought political goal. Neither seems to have worked so far, I’m happy to note, but the aforementioned are plainly political goals of the AG and the Obama Administration. With this in mind, Holder’s complaint about a congressional citation of contempt against him being “political” rings kind of hollow to my perhaps jaundiced ear.

So as noted at the outset, I haven’t the proverbial clue as to how this business will turn out. As for criminal contempt, can you imagine the U.S. Attorney for Washington, D.C., Holder being his or her boss proceeding to arrest the AG, I cannot, but perhaps my imagination is overly limited. As to congress taking the AG to court, via the filing of a civil action against him, that too might be something of a hoot, though stranger things have happened, or could happen.

At the end of the thing, it all strikes me as rather sad, for with respect to the bone headed operation that Fast & Furious was, an remains, a lot of “stuff” could have been avoided if Holder, the DOJ and I will add The Whitehouse had played it straight, instead of doubling down on what was a very bad bet. It is a shame that they lied, double-talked and of course that they “doubled down” on what in retrospect was, a very bad bet.

In conclusion, while some of the foregoing might be “off topic”, the following question comes to mind. The president, at one point in his career, taught constitutional law. I wonder how well he taught something that he seemingly had/has so little respect for.
 
In conclusion, while some of the foregoing might be “off topic”, the following question comes to mind. The president, at one point in his career, taught constitutional law. I wonder how well he taught something that he seemingly had/has so little respect for.

He claims to have taught it. Perhaps he did. NOBODY claims he was good at it.
 
As for criminal contempt, can you imagine the U.S. Attorney for Washington, D.C., Holder being his or her boss proceeding to arrest the AG, I cannot, but perhaps my imagination is overly limited. As to congress taking the AG to court, via the filing of a civil action against him, that too might be something of a hoot, though stranger things have happened, or could happen.
We're in uncharted waters here. The US Attorney has the power to prosecute Holder, but he also has discretion on the matter. I really doubt he's going to pursue it.

As far as the civil side of things, it could take years.

In neither case does Congress really have a way to compel him to produce the documents in a reasonable amount of time. Given the invocation of Executive Privilege, it doesn't look like there's any pressure from the top.

So, basically, we just got treated to a day of political theater and little more.
 
"So, basically, we just got treated to a day of political theater and little more."
Seemingly. Not much else to be done and at least the yes voters did the right thing. May have some minor impact in November.
 
jmortimer wrote:

"So, basically, we just got treated to a day of political theater and little more."
Seemingly. Not much else to be done and at least the yes voters did the right thing. May have some minor impact in November.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------Who knows what November will bring. The impact of the elections might well be a lot more than "minor"
 
CBS is reporting that Holder will not be prosecuted. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_...house-holder-wont-be-prosecuted-for-contempt/
Disappointing, but not surprising. One would think there would be a remedy for such a clear conflict of interest (prosecuting your boss).

Unless some ATF/DOJ/etc person with inside info is willing to blow the whistle again, I think the traction the investigators had has just about vanished.
It's unlikely the American people will know the truth within the next few years, if at all.
 
Hopefully one issue that can get resolved prior to the election is to force DOJ to produce a privilege log showing what documents are being withheld. So far DOJ has declined to do that.

I am guessing DOJ hasn't done it because they don't know what Issa has and don't want to get caught not providing relevant documents OR get caught providing relevant docs that Issa doesn't know about.
 
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