ATF Project Gunrunner

Sharyl Attkisson with CBS News is reporting that the murder of ICE agent Jaime Zapata has been definitively linked to weapons from a non-Fast & Furious ATF undercover operation.

Apparently, ATF was watching TWO separate traffickers and weapons from both traffickers subsequently ended up in Mexico at the murder scene of Jaime Zapata.

Dave Workman at the Examiner is saying that Sen. Grassley is not at all pleased with this report since he has been asking DOJ for information related to the death of Agent Zapata for almost a year now and been stonewalled. The Zapata family was also apparently not informed of this link and was not told of the ATF connection or asked to give a victim impact statement at the trial of either trafficker. They apparently heard about it from CBS calling them for comment.
 
So, Barba gets 100 months, which translates into just over 8 years, for weapons trafficking. I thought the minimum was 10 years.

IIRC, that's the worst sentence anyone's been handed down in this whole situation. Some only received probation.
 
This latest from CBS News is just amazing. Holder had to know about this prosecution while he was testifying to Congress; yet he doesn't mention it. If he claims he didn't know, more proof of incompetence. Nobody could be that incompetent, IMO.
 
Ben Towe, after quoting a portion of my post offered the following:

Quote:
Anyhow, having heard Ms. Miller, one is given recall admonitions about not waking the sleeping giant, in the vernacular that was China. In this case, that sleeping giant MIGHT turn out to be The Fourth Estate, unlikely as that might seem.

You could be onto something there. They may be rabidly anti-gun on the whole, but many of them are viciously opposed to corruption as well. Besides, nothing gets ratings like a big juicy scandal.
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Re the "big, juicy scandal" he mentions, point taken. Just think how much juicer, how much bigger the scandal of Operation Fast & Furious, along with its' ongoing coverup would be if media gave up singing its' usual anti gun dirge and really concentrated on the twin scandals of Operation Fast & Furious, and its' cover-up. I suspect a whole lot bigger and a whole lot juicer.
 
The really ironic thing is that all these anti-gun organizations claim to be concerned about gun violence; but yet aren't the least bit outraged or upset to find that ATF is directing firearms to violent criminals. You would think that if they were really concerned about gun violence they would be just as upset as we are.

From my perspective, it seems like they see arming violent criminals as a small price to pay if it means they can disarm the vast majority of us who never hurt a soul with our firearms.
 
Two weeks ago when Janet Napolitano appeared before Congress to answer questions about the budget, and was asked about the murder of Jaime Zapata - she didn't already know that F&F guns were used to kill agent Zapata ???

I highly doubt it...

HIGHLY DOUBT IT !!! It didn't happen a month ago... It happened a year ago !

She said she could not rule out the possibility that Fast and Furious guns were tied to Zapata’s slaying.

“‘It’s possible’, is what you’re saying?” McCaul asked.

“I just don’t know one way or another,” Napolitano answered.

“So you can’t conclusively say one way or the other whether there’s a link to these weapons and Fast & Furious?” asked McCaul.

“That’s true,” Napolitano responded.

Yet seemingly irritated after repeated questions on the subject she simply added: “I didn’t know this was a Fast and Furious hearing.”
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So many liars in this administration it's sickening.

http://blog.chron.com/txpotomac/201...ts-of-mistakes-in-fast-and-furious-gun-sting/
 
she didn't already know that F&F guns were used to kill agent Zapata ???
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That is the other big aspect of that. Those were not Fast & Furious guns that killed Agent Zapata. Instead, they were guns from TWO SEPARATE ATF investigations that took place outside the Phoenix office of the ATF.

So we now know there are at least two more ATF investigations outside of Fast & Furious/Phoenix where guns under ATF surveillance ended up in Mexico at the murder scene of a U.S. law enforcement officer. How many guns were lost/walked in those investigations? If gunwalking is such a horrible, flawed tactic, why are we not interested in what appears to be solid evidence of additional gun walking? Why is the DOJ stonewalling on the death of Agent Zapata; much as they initially lied concerning the death of Agent Terry?

Those would be great questions for someone besides CBS News to ask.
 
Rep Michael McCaul's questions begin at 39 minutes:

http://www.c-span.org/Events/Secretary-Napolitano-Explains-DHS-Funding-Request/10737428328-1/

It's very short, but I think McCaul is trying to establish a connection - there was an ICE agent assigned to F&F. Originally it was Ed Hammel, later it was Layne France.

They attended meetings but never heard anything? Did these guys never make reports? Never give status updates?

There is also the issue of the replacement of Ed Hamel with Layne France to work alongside ATF in the operation. Suppodedly Ed Hamel raised objections - I'd love to know if those were written objects.

Janet seems to have pausible deniability and really hasn't come under scrutiny, but as more and more information comes to light, I have to ask how she could not know about F&F.

She had an agent working alongside BATFE on F&F !!

Who yanked Ed Hamel when he raised objections? That was done without her knowledge?
 
Not only that; but Dennis Burke, the U. S. Attorney in Phoenix and thus far, the highest ranking figure forced to resign over Fast and Furious (as well as being the person DOJ threw under the bus for lying to Congress in the initial response letter) is Napolitano's former Chief-of-Staff.
 
We have already seen testimony that some of the F&F gunwalking involved getting guns through border checkpoints. The Border Patrol is part of Homeland Security and does not take orders from ATF or US Attorneys; that type of understanding has to be reached between Homeland Security and DOJ.
 
I just thought about this...

OK, so the guns that were used to murder agent Zapata didn't come from F&F.

Rep Michael McCaul's question was:

“So you can’t conclusively say one way or the other whether there’s a link to these weapons and Fast & Furious?”
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She said
That’s true
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If CBS news can turn evidence showing were these guns came from - and it was another gun running operation but not F&F - Napolitano had to have known. She knew that the guns came from some BATFE operation - just not F&F. She did know conclusively that the guns were not from F&F.

How could she not have known a year afterward? If the info wasn't out there - how could CBS have turned it up last week?

Janet Napolitano is doing the same thing Holder is... someone who is that out of touch with what is going on can't possibly run an organization. She is can't possibly run Homeland Security and be that ignorant of the Zapata case.

And they play semantics... everything depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is.
 
C0untZer0, re your post #2044:

I guess that nobody ever told Janet about "going to hell for lying, just like for stealing", or if they did, she didn't believe them.

Is "the plot thickens" appropriate?
 
At this point in time, would it be using an overly broad brush to "paint the following word picture"?

There is nothing about the Obama Administration that is not rotten to the core, at least respecting Executive Branch Agencies?
 
Operation White Gun?

I am starting to wonder if the Zapata murder weapons came from operation White Gun.

The story of the existence of that operation was broken by the LA Times. That is suspect in itself because the LA Times, much like MSNBC has largely ignored the story, until they started squaking about operation Wide Receiver and how it originated under the Bush administration. Certainly the LA Times has not been investigating the story.

There are some who have speculated that the story of Operation White Gun was given to the LA Times by sources in the Obama administration. The tought goes that it's much better to have the LA Times or MSNBC report on it than have Sharyl Attkisson or Fox news break the story.

In the LA Times story:

Officials from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives declined to comment on whether any firearms were lost in White Gun. But unlike Fast and Furious, they vigorously defended the previously unreported White Gun operation as a well-managed investigation that produced three arrests and convictions.
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They certainly put this operation in a good light... but despite the postive spin - they can't say that guns didn't wind up in the hands of cartel members.

The DOJ has done a pretty good job of bottling up info about White Gun, I have't heard a single word of it for over a month.
 
Let's be careful to keep this related to guns, and not drift into straight politics.
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Why related to guns? This section needs not guns in the discussion... Just civil rights (ALL OF THEM) or law... This is the only section not needing guns in the discussion except the huntin' section...

Brent
 
This is the only section not needing guns in the discussion except the huntin' section.
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Well, I suppose it'd be correct of me to admit I misspoke, but that would entail admitting a mistake. Instead, I will deny everything and insist I was misquoted. Sir, I am flabbergasted by your attempt to disgrace my good name! :p

Really, good point, and my bad. Been a long week.

Let's all avoid pure politics, though.
 
Tom Servo closed one post with the following,

"Let's all avoid pure politics, though."
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How about "impure politics", which seems to describe the antics of Obama et al re firearms in general and Fast & Furious in particular.

Having no desire to get into an argument with anyone, I will close here.
 
How about "impure politics", which seems to describe the antics of Obama et al re firearms in general and Fast & Furious in particular.
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The thread is about Fast & Furious, Gunrunner, and the peripheral issues, as long as they are relevant to that topic.
 
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