ATF Extending CLEO Sign Off to Trusts and Corporations

There's an LGS in my area that has a trust set up and if you want to buy a silencer from them they'll sell it you and add you to their trust, no questions asked.
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I could see some potential liability problems there.
 
JohnKSa said:
That may be true, but that doesn't mean things like that aren't going on. There's an LGS in my area that has a trust set up and if you want to buy a silencer from them they'll sell it you and add you to their trust, no questions asked.
Tom Servo said:
I could see some potential liability problems there.
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I agree with Tom. At the very least, it's foolish on the part of the LGS. It's equally foolish on the part of a law-abiding citizen who wants a silencer. For pity's sake, if I'm going to cough up the dough for an NFA item, I really don't want goodnessknowshowmany strangers in my trust with me.
 
That may be true, but that doesn't mean things like that aren't going on. There's an LGS in my area that has a trust set up and if you want to buy a silencer from them they'll sell it you and add you to their trust, no questions asked.
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:eek: My God. I thought AZ had the monopoly on FFLs with monumentally poor judgement. :mad:
 
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This is exactly why I did my SBR after Obama got reelected. :mad:

ATF will need to grandfather stamps already issued. It will be interesting to see what they do with submitted but not yet approved NFA applications.

I assume public comments don't matter, they have already decided. :mad:
 
if I'm going to cough up the dough for an NFA item, I really don't want goodnessknowshowmany strangers in my trust with me.
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It's not just that. The ATF has revoked approval for trusts after previously granting it. If something is amiss with the store's trust, I could lose the items I registered under it.

Given the current "OMG felons can register machine guns in a trust" mentality, there's a good chance the ATF would review that one very closely.
 
Even worse, if the Trust is invalidated, the items (suppressor, SBR, etc...) in question are no longer registered under the NFA and possession is therefore a violation of the NFA.
 
Tom Servo said:
It's not just that. The ATF has revoked approval for trusts after previously granting it. If something is amiss with the store's trust, I could lose the items I registered under it.
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That's Problem #1. Problem #2 is this: If you use a trust, the trust owns the NFA item. So if something should happen to me, how will the value of those items be transferred to my estate? (Not that I ever expect to own a large number of NFA items, but if I've paid for them, I don't want my family to have to fight with everyone else in the trust over that $.)
 
I did a Trust. My wife is co-trustee. When we die my brother becomes trustee and he amends the trust to include his wife and kid etc.... Trust never dies. It all depends on how it is written.
 
I agree with Tom. At the very least, it's foolish on the part of the LGS. It's equally foolish on the part of a law-abiding citizen who wants a silencer. For pity's sake, if I'm going to cough up the dough for an NFA item, I really don't want goodnessknowshowmany strangers in my trust with me.
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It's a spectacularly bad idea. I can't imagine what's going to happen to all those trustees and their toys when it all collapses--and I think it's a sure thing that it will sooner or later.
 
Don't trustees still get filed with the ATF in some fashion? Or do they JUST see the trust and not know there's 200 trustees listed unless they go out and actually look it up? I'd think they'd automatically look into any trust with >x number of trustees. That'd be a better start to limiting misuse of trusts than adding more procedures.

Related, does every trustee need to go through any type of background check?
 
Don't trustees still get filed with the ATF in some fashion?
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Those who are on the initial trust do. I'm not an expert but it sounds like adding trustees can be done without ATF getting involved.
...does every trustee need to go through any type of background check?
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Apparently not.

http://thegunwriter.blogs.heraldtribune.com/12314/the-benefits-of-a-gun-trust/

Background Check Not Required- while most Class 3 dealers do it anyway, there is no requirement of a background check when an NFA gun trust is used.​

http://mrsilencer.com/GUN_TRUSTS.html
They don't have to process fingerprints and do an individual background check.​
 
I think that's a bigger isssue than trying to get some CLEO who has the right to refuse based on his personal opinion sign off on everything.
 
Background Check Not Required- while most Class 3 dealers do it anyway, there is no requirement of a background check when an NFA gun trust is used.
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According to the NFA Handbook,

9.12.1 NFA Transfers to other than individuals. Subsequent to the approval of an application requesting to transfer an NFA firearm to, or on behalf of, a partnership, company, association, trust, estate, or corporation, the authorized person picking up the firearm on behalf of, a partnership, company, association, trust, estate, or corporation from the FFL must complete the Form 4473 with his/her personal information and undergo a NICS check.
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My trust has two trustees. Me and my lovely lady. When I send in new form 4(s) the amendment that names her as a trustee goes with the trust to ATF.

My dealer used to attach photos of us with the trust. Some of my trust's approved form 4s have my photo attached when they were sent back.

A few months back, my dealer got a call from his inspector (Nickie) telling him to stop sending the photos because they were confusing the temporary help that they had there.
 
I'm hearing this one a lot:

(150% - 3,900% increase in NFA Tax.) The Transfer & Manufacture Stamp Taxes are being raised from $200 per item to $500 per item, AOW's will go from $5 to $200. This is most likely because the NFA Branch of the ATF will be receiving so many fewer applications, and just an excuse in general to increase tax revenue per item.
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However, I'm not seeing it anywhere in the proposal. Anyone know where this is coming from?
 
That is in a bill proposed in Congress (with zero chance of passing in the House) by an anti-gunner.
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I saw that (and good luck reallocating Pittman-Robertson funds!), but the rumor that it's in the rulemaking is being repeated pretty often and pretty loudly. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.
 
Yeah, I was reading recently how they, the ATF considers trusts to be a loop hole that allows convicted felons to own NFA firearms, and they are (have) taken measures to change it.
 
That is nonsense. Even more nonsense because the measure they are taking doesn't solve the problem they claim exists. It just creates an additional barrier for legal ownership.
 
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