ATF at Gunshows....

One tip off is they almost always work in pairs when trying to get someone to screw up. One does the talking and the other is the silent buddy observing everything.
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Never seen them at a table, but have suspected the above to be true - you know, those "deals" that seem too good to be true. The random, shady looking guy who has a van out in the lot with stuff that you'll just love.

Happened a couple times now - may have been legit sellers, but I always trust my gut, and my gut said run
 
Just Private and Protective !!

I'm finding some replies of interest. It should be obvious that these guys would not be there if they didn't have to. Yes, they are providing some service but what is their agenda? Next time I run into them, I'm going to ask them why they are there. ..... :confused:

Be Safe !!!
 
Some of these descriptions of "ATF agents" are hysterical....really.

The ATF folks sitting behind the tables at gunshows ARE NOT Enforcement Agents, but Industry Operations Investigators....ie they don't carry guns, they're beancounters.

If you don't know the difference, how the heck do you think you can recognise them?:rolleyes:
 
.ie they don't carry guns, they're beancounters.
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You seem to have some good insight, but I'm not getting it. A "beancounter" to me is nothing more than an accountant. The folks sitting at the table aren't counting anything. I was thinking that they were more of a command post, or communications relay for their agents walking around looking for problems. Or, maybe they are exactly what they look like - there to educate public and dealers about firearms laws. That seems odd, because the IRS doesn't set up tables at any event to try to inform the public on how to fill out their tax returns. The FBI doesn't exactly go out of their way to educate the public on how not to violate federal laws.
 
Skans
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.ie they don't carry guns, they're beancounters.
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You seem to have some good insight, but I'm not getting it. A "beancounter" to me is nothing more than an accountant. The folks sitting at the table aren't counting anything.
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They aren't "counting anything" because their supervisor told them to go to a gun show instead of being at home for the weekend.

IOI's are the ATF employees who are responsible for......wait for it........Industry Operations ( the "Industry" in this case being the firearms industry) This means they count beans (guns) at the premises of a licensed dealer or manufacturer. They conduct compliance inspections, which is an audit of the dealers bound book, 4473's and inventory. They also serve as a resource for dealers who have questions regarding commerce in firearms. Having ATF IOI's at a gun show is a good thing.





I was thinking that they were more of a command post, or communications relay for their agents walking around looking for problems. Or, maybe they are exactly what they look like - there to educate public and dealers about firearms laws. That seems odd, because the IRS doesn't set up tables at any event to try to inform the public on how to fill out their tax returns. The FBI doesn't exactly go out of their way to educate the public on how not to violate federal laws.
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It's a table at a gun show, plain and simple. For all the faults of ATF, having a table at a gun show serve as a command post or communications relay for supposed "undercover investigations" would be laughable. But it does make for good conspiracy theory.

Note that the IRS and FBI don't have direct regulatory authority over interstate commerce in firearms.....and ATF does.

It might surprise you but ATF conducts several educational seminars for dealers and manufacturers at the SHOT Show each year. Do they have to? No.
 
Respectfully though, thats not a beancounter. A beancounter is sometimes friendly, sometimes derogatory term for accountant. Now if the ATF uses accountants to check store paperwork, thats possible however unlikely, but I am in a different line of work...
 
Tom, thanks for the more detailed explanation. I'm not much for conspiracy theories, but being a lay person in the area of ATF affairs (like the other 5,000 attendees), no one really knows what it's about.
 
Apparently the ATF at shows in the DFW area of TX have been videotaping at gun shows. Trying to capture what exactly I am unsure but it has been reported as happening.
 
ripnbst Apparently the ATF at shows in the DFW area of TX have been videotaping at gun shows. Trying to capture what exactly I am unsure but it has been reported as happening.
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Do you have a source for that claim? If it's "been reported" by who?:rolleyes:
Every gun show in the DFW area has a policy of "no photos, no video".
 
I'll bet ya dollars to donuts -- some needle neck atfe hqs geek that never made an arrest suggested this and got a $10k award for implementing it.
 
I get the feeling theyre just there to watch everybody but then, they could do that in plain clothes anyway. Maybe they just want to make their presence known?
 
Im glad to see the ATF inspectors at the gunshows when I see them. They are generally very helpful and willing to pass along information to folks and also being there allows them to be accessible to folks to give them advice so they dont go astray of the laws.
 
I would refer to them as gofers instead of beancounters... as in go fer a cup of coffee....

My opinion of it (you knew I had one didn't you?) is that it is a PR attempt to get the public (gun owner segment) to see them in a little more friendly light. It also could make a favorable impression on the nightly news. They have such a despicable image among many (most?) gun owners that I think they are trying to change that and put forth an effort to be seen in a more favorable manner, as an information resource or show presence just trying to help. :rolleyes:

The people I see manning the tables (and I have looked specifically) are not the older experienced manager types who could answer a lot of questions but instead they seem to be younger staff, not especially enthusiastic about their assignment. Maybe that is because their table is empty with a small stack of fold out brochures and seldom is there anyone stopping to chat.

I propose we give them something to do, at the next show, stop by and ask a technical question or two or three. See what their response is. Don't forget to get their name and other ID - they would do the same to you.
 
I wonder how many times someone comes up to them during a show and asks "can you check on my silencer transfer"?

What would be really helpful is if they hand sample NFA Trusts that had been approved; or the "how-to's" in drafting your own NFA Trust.
 
So is the BATFE a regulatory agency or a revenue agency?

I have never truly understood the distinction, however, I have always felt it rather unnecessary that an organization mainly responsible for taxes on luxury goods feels it necessary to carry submachine guns and Glock 22s.
 
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