ATF "Always Think Forfeiture"

jimpeel wrote:

Sali said he’s drafting legislation that would prevent ATF from launching similar marketing program.

Wouldn't drafting legislation to repeal the seizure and forfeiture laws be a better step?

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Re proposals of/from Congressman Sali, whose name is totally unfamiliar to me, and ATF's "marketing program", seems like much ado about nothing.

On the other hand, drafting legislation to repeal civil asset forfeiture and seizure laws could be of value to the citizenry, as it might curb what I've previously described as the criminal like antics of Law Enforcement. Of course, this assumes that congress critters really wanted to curb the criminal antics of Law enforcement, or what passes therefore, a proposition that I have grave doubts concerning the validity of. After all, in all the years of it's operational antics, has The Congress ever really acted to curb the antics of the ATTU/IRS, the ATFD, the BATF or most recently the BATFE. To the best of my recollection, the answer to that question is NO.

Now then should this conclusion do Representative Sali an injustice, the following comes to mind. Individuals tend to be judged by the behavior
of those they associate with. This might not be "fair", but it is the way things are.
 
Alan

This is a great place to start when seeking info on S&F abuses. http://fear.org/

The problem that S&F laws created was it turned our LEOs into bounty hunters.

Let's say that the dollar amout in seized assets in Anytown, USA in the past year was $2 million. The annual budget for the Anytown PD is $15 million.

The city council sees these asset forfeitures as income for the city and, since the PD was able to glean $2 million last year they fully expect them to do likewise this year.

In recognition of this feat, the city council cuts the PD budget to $13 million with the expectations that the PD woill make uop the shortfall in seizures. This puts the PD, and all of its officers, in the position of having to go out and find that shortfall. Thus they become bounty hunters for the city and are encouraged, as was the ATF, to "think forfeiture".

If you want to read something REALLY scary, read this.

http://www.davekopel.com/Waco/LawRev/CanSoldiersBePeaceOfficers.htm

Part IV (A) para 6

In 1994, BATF acquired three OV-10 light attack aircraft, a type of plane used in the Gulf War and for counter-insurgency, which is commonly equipped with rockets, although machine guns and chain guns can also be attached. Twenty-two such planes had been acquired in 1993.[136] None of the planes were registered to BATF, but at least seven are registered to American Warbirds in Maryland. No company named "American Warbirds" has never acquired a license to do business in Maryland, and thus, to the extent that American Warbirds actually exists, its operations are a criminal misdemeanor.[137] Aircraft title records indicate that American Warbirds acquired the planes from Mid-Air Salvage, a company with a New Jersey address, but which (like American War Birds) does not exist in the Federal Aviation Administration database. Mid-Air acquired the planes from the federal government's General Services Administration.[138] It is not clear why the transfer of aircraft from the military to the BATF needed to be laundered through two civilian corporations.[139](p.649)

According to BATF Director John W. Magaw, the BATF's OV-10 aircraft have their weapons removed. Mr. Magaw describes the OV-10's capabilities as "reconnaissance" and "command and control and insertion of troops." [140] He states that the forward-looking infrared system on the OV-10, which can be used to identify objects at night or under poor visibility conditions, will be used "to enhance the safety of ATF special agents and other law enforcement officers working to combat firearms trafficking and other violent street crime." [141] In 1996, Congress defunded the BATF air force.
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Here is the skinny on this little jewel: http://www.thebestlinks.com/OV__MM__10.html
 
the OV-10, which can be used to identify objects at night or under poor visibility conditions, will be used "to enhance the safety of ATF special agents and other law enforcement officers working to combat firearms trafficking and other violent street crime.
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Is firearms trafficking a violent crime?
 
jimpeel:

The shucking and jiving about who owns the aircraft in question is clearly a device to hide ownership and likely whom it is or might be that operates the things too. As to what business a Law Enforcement agency has with military aircraft, that is an unanswered question.

As to the operation of Civil Seizure and Civil Forfeiture Laws, Theft Under Color Of Law continues to strike me as a more than simply apt description.

I will conclude with the following. The fact that despite the "checkered record of the "ATF", the fact that the congress has yet to atually check the antics of this run away mob is, to say the very least, troubling. In addition, it presents a clear and present danger to individual liberty and constitutional rights.

As to the links you provided, they are more than simply "interesting".
 
To the best of my knowledge, the aircraft were returned to DoD and the BATF no longer has them. The fact that they ever had them in the first place is what is truly troubling.
 
I wrote my representative about this, and my letter had nothing to do with RKBA. It was an expression of my concern for Civil Forfeiture laws. This is the canned, form letter response I got back:

Thank you for contacting me to express your support for protecting the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution. I appreciate hearing from you.

I could not agree with you more. I share your support for the right of all law-abiding Americans, guaranteed by the Second Amendment, to own a gun and to use it in defense of self, family, or property. I will continue to object to additional gun control legislation. The simple fact that advocates of gun control fail to realize is that those who use guns in the commission of a crime are by nature lawbreakers and are not going to let gun control measures stop them from getting a gun or carrying out their crime. Additional restrictions on the Second Amendment mostly infringe on the right of law-abiding citizens.

I recently voted in favor of an amendment to the Commerce, Justice, and Science Appropriations bill by Rep. Todd Tiahrt that ensures that the ATF may not disclose trace data or multiple handgun sales to any person or entity, unless the request for such data is part of a “bona fide” criminal investigation within their jurisdiction. Both the ATF and the Fraternal Order of Police (FOP) have been supportive of the Tiahrt amendment. FOP opposes disclosure of this data because they argued it could jeopardize ongoing investigations, and thereby endanger officers' lives.

Trial lawyers have been pursuing lawsuits against firearm manufacturers for a number of years. They took the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) to court in an attempt to gather firearms trace data. They wanted this data, not to use in criminal proceedings, but as part of a fishing expedition to gather evidence to use in their civil lawsuit against firearm manufacturers and sellers. Unfortunately, in 2002, a court ruled in favor of the trial lawyers and ordered BATFE to turn over information.

The provision has been included in the annual funding bill since 2003. Commonly referred to as the “Tiahrt Amendment,” the amendment is supported by a broad range of advocates, including organizations committed to preserving Second Amendment rights like the National Rifle Association and law enforcement groups like the Fraternal Order of Police (FOP).

As a strong supporter of the Second Amendment, I will do all I can to ensure that the right to bear arms is not eroded by the current majority who would like to whittle away this right piece by piece. Thank you for contacting me with your concerns. If I can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me. It is a pleasure to serve you in the United States Congress.
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This letter had no relation whatsoever to what my letter was pointing out.
 
divemedic:

The "responses" that one gets from congress critters are nothing, in my experience that is, but canned, prewritten pap, the sort of thing that all to often is totally devoid of the slightest contact with whatever the constituent might have had to say. Seems that this is the way the thing works, which is sad, or do it seems to me.

Having said this, did you seriously expect a germane reply, that is something that actually addressed whatever it was that you had had to say?
 
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