ATF "Always Think Forfeiture"

Republicrat

New member
So the ATF is ordering a bunch of leatherman tools that are to be engraved "always think forfeiture".

That's certainly a sign of freedom...right? /puke

http://www.fbo.gov/spg/DOJ/BATF/APM...ent to Combined Synopsis_Solicitation 03.html

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms requires the following items, Purchase Description Determined by Line Item, to the following:
LI 001, EXACT MATCH ONLY - Leatherman Micra Color: Blue - Part number 64340101K Engraved with: ATF-Asset Forfeiture AND "always think forfeiture"
 
They are NOT the only government agency to whom THEFT UNDER COLOR OF LAW, otherwise known as Civil Asset Forfeiture as it is known, might be or has become SOP.

Having said that, we come back to that age old problem, facilitation, in this case the FACT that the work product of our elected things, statute law, facilitates the above mentioned THEFT UNDER COLOR OF LAW. In case you hadn't noticed, it continues to so do.
 
I propose they be forced to change their name to the Bureau of Unmilitarized Longguns, Lagers, Spirits, Handguns, Incendiaries and Tobacco.
 
I propose they be forced to change their name to the Bureau of Unmilitarized Longguns, Lagers, Spirits, Handguns, Incendiaries and Tobacco.

That's too big for a leatherman tool...we'll have to abbreviate. :)
 
The idea of forfeiture of assets attained as a result of illegal activity, (such as yachts bought with drug money) or the seizure of guns as evidence of a real crime doesn't bother me. But there damn well should be a criminal investigation and prosecution to back it up. If the person is not convicted, they should get their property back. End of story. Anything else is the government using strong-arm tactics and intimidation to steal.

There are several guys who sell guns at the flea market. Same guys every week. They are clearly engaged in 'dealing without a license' and they've been doing it for years. One day, I see one of them without any guns, only accessories. I asked what happened and he said that ATF stormed his house in the middle of the night like Waco. They took everything and threatened to make his life hell if they caught him with more guns.

Since when does the ATF have the right to tell a person that they are not allowed to own guns? Why didn't they prosecute? If they know they violated his rights or otherwise have no case, they have no right to keep his property.

/rant
 
The jack-booted, sturmtruppen thug bastards of the waffen BATFEces don't even bother trying to hide what they are anymore.:mad:

That's a pretty good indication that they seriously lack oversight and reveals their mindset.
 
This is typical of the government taking everything you own under asset forfeiture seizure laws.

Try defending yourself in court when they take your car, house, possessions and freeze your bank accounts and credit cards.

I think we should give them all baseball caps that read "Due Process".
 
lockedcj7 wrote,mentioning what didn't bother him:

The idea of forfeiture of assets attained as a result of illegal activity, (such as yachts bought with drug money) or the seizure of guns as evidence of a real crime doesn't bother me. But there damn well should be a criminal investigation and prosecution to back it up. If the person is not convicted, they should get their property back. End of story. Anything else is the government using strong-arm tactics and intimidation to steal.

There are several guys who sell guns at the flea market. Same guys every week. They are clearly engaged in 'dealing without a license' and they've been doing it for years. One day, I see one of them without any guns, only accessories. I asked what happened and he said that ATF stormed his house in the middle of the night like Waco. They took everything and threatened to make his life hell if they caught him with more guns.

Since when does the ATF have the right to tell a person that they are not allowed to own guns? Why didn't they prosecute? If they know they violated his rights or otherwise have no case, they have no right to keep his property.

/rant

How about the fact of the absolute lack of arrest, indictment, trial and conviction BEFORE punishment of an individual. I would say that seizure if personal property from an individual is punishment of that individual, and absent a showing of guilt that warrants such punishment crosses the line between law enforcement and criminal action, which government at various levels, is clearly guilty of, criminal acts, no matter what sort of weasel words one might find in the law books. By the way, this sort of crap is what we get from our poor, overworked, underpaid elected things, to whom comment might be addressed on exactly this sort of garbage.
 
Acquire Through Fraud - because the whole idea that property can be guilty, and that civil forfeiture of said property only punishes the property, not the owner, is fraudulent.
 
Always Think Forfeiture...

maybe they should just skip the cute acronyms and just go for the leatherman that says "Evil Incarnate".

You might want to think, if that page on fbo.gov generates any kind of controversy it will be taken down. You better copy and paste it somewhere, maybe here.

If it gets taken down they will just say people are making it up. Just another 'spiracy theory, least until President Klinton II can gets in position an' starts burnin' children again.
 
The listing is being discussed elsewhere, so no doubt people have taken screen shots, etc. Also, the wayback machine has no doubt archived it.

You can take down embarrassing stuff from your website, but if it was ever there, it's always there on the wayback machine. Great fun.

http://www.archive.org/web/web.php
 
ATF has a long history of going after legitimate gun shops looking for paperwork infractions that can result in hefty fines while ignoring outright criminal FFL dealers where no money is to be made. In Daytona Beach almost 20 years ago they pounded on one shop for not having a middle initial on a form while the stripper with the FFL who worked at an Outlaws strip bar and lived in an Outlaws home conducted business for the gang under her FFL.

No money to be made in going after her...

If Leatherman sees fit to fill such an order they should also be held accountable. They do not have to supply engraving and would freely refuse to engrave anything profane or racist.
 
armabill writes of the ATF (more properly The BATFE):

ATF (American Thug Force).



Seems a fair characterization, an apt use of terminology.
 
Jim:

Thanks so much for the link, which your publication thereof constitutes PUBLIC SERVICE.

One question re this remains in my mind. How many will read it?
 
One question re this remains in my mind. How many will read it?

The ones who realize that all seizure and forfeiture laws name the same five entities which are to be seized:

  • Real property
  • Vehicles
  • Monetary instruments including bank accounts and investments
  • Drugs
  • Firearms

The first I heard of F.E.A.R. they had a meeting in Orange County, CA. There was a guy there named Danny Oaxaca (Wa HA-ca). He had invested in rental properties when he got out of high school. He owned eight apartment buildings, had his own concrete business building multi level parking structures. He was a real estate broker as well.

He was approached by a guy who wanted to buy one of the apartment houses. He sold the place to the guy and also brokered the deal. Little did he know that the man in question was under investigation for drug trafficking.

At 2AM one night, the police kicked in his door, rousted his wife and children and himself, sat them in the living room in their night clothes handcuffed and proceeded to ransack the house. No one would answer any questions as to why they had broken into the house.

After three hours, he and his wife were taken to jail and his daughter to protective services. Two days later, they were released and Danny thought the nightmare was at an end. Not so.

The police came to his business and seized it and all of his vehicles. They seized all of his records and hauled them away. They seized the eight apartment buildings and gave the tenants a three day notice to quit. They seized his personal and business banking accounts. They seized his daughter's savings account with $113.00 she earned babysitting.

The nightmare had just begun, however.

At that time the law stated that one must place a 10% bond against their own seized property to get a hearing. Danny didn't have that money.

The police demanded he prove where he got his money and Danny told them that he needed to show them his records. The police wouldn't release his records as they had been seized. Without them, he couldn't prove where he got his money part of which was an advanced payment for beginning a project from the Los Angeles Redevelopment District. That money was seized also.

After several months, Danny finally made a deal to get the apartment buildings released. They would keep four of them and Danny would get the other four released to him. The buildings had not been occupied and had been broken into and stripped. Nothing had been paid on the outstanding mortgages on the buildings. The banks which held the notes on the buildings immediately foreclosed Danny's four buildings. The banks which held notes against the other four simply lost out. The last I heard, they were going to sue Danny for the loss.

Danny's business assets were never returned. His trucks and equipment were simply gone forever. His attempts at restarting his business were in vain because no one with whom he had dealt prior to the arrest would deal with him. They told him that the police had told them that he was a drug dealer and they were afraid to associate with him further.

The last I heard from Danny, he was fighting to retain his home which, while listed as a forfeited asset, had not yet been formally seized.

Neither Danny or any member of his family was ever charged with a crime. They never went to trial. They were never convicted. They never went to jail. His property was charged with a crime and seized.

The man who bought the first apartment house was also never charged.

It was at this time that the big flap about the ducks in the canals in Venice, CA was going on. The city wanted to destroy the ducks because they had a disease. The city did not want the ducks to mingle with other migratory waterfowl and cause an epidemic. The people who wanted to protect the ducks from destruction took the city to court. I forget the outcome.

Danny told us in that meeting "I wish I was a f---in' duck. At least the ducks got a day in court."
 
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