At what point do you draw?

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So you drew and didn't fire ? Yes because he stopped before he got to me after I aimed my pistol at him.


After he stopped - then you proceeded to shoot him 2 times ? Why did you shoot him ? Because when I draw I always shoot. Lol how do you feel this second scenario will end ?


Well I feared for my life and I shot him. Good you better hope to prove it without a shadow of doubt and better hope there is no witness down the road who state that state he stopped with hands up and you felt since you had to draw you have to destroy.
 
Just speaking for myself, I would draw when I feel confident that my failure to do so would likely end in my death. That's when I am going to draw.
 
Beat the bum to the punch with "Hey buddy, can you spare a dollar? Got any extra smokes? I just need a dollar to get on the bus."

I did that to one drunk who got so flustered at not being able to ask ME for money that he literally wet himself.
 
Conceal carry in my state does not cover a loaded gun in the console. The only conceal carry I legally can do is carry on my person. You may want to check on your state. You could find your weapon confiscated, your license suspended, fined, your record dinged, or may be just a reminder.
 
Don't agree 100% of those who say only to pull it when wanting to destroy. If I feel the need to pull it I have no problem there then we'll go to using it or other party changed mind and I feel now I don't have to destroy just take the other avenue. As a police officer I'm glad I don't shoot every time I have to pull it out or either point at someone ! Situational awareness is a good thing and did you have to be on wrong side of tracks? But sometimes we do, be aware, keep pistol in a better location such as the need arises
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its called discretion. no one said you have to shoot everytime you pull it, but let me ask you this. do you pull it when you dont feel threatened and not ready to destroy what your pointing at? if so thats a problem on a different level.
 
Beat the bum to the punch with "Hey buddy, can you spare a dollar? Got any extra smokes? I just need a dollar to get on the bus."
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At one point of my life when I was younger I got so sick of bums asking me for money I started doing this. I would see them make eye contact start to ask.. and then I would say "hey/ do you have any spare change???"
Usually about 1 out of 3 would give me some spare change and want to talk about this and that.

So it back fired on me, lol I hated taking grubby coins from hands that have not been washed in days... lol
 
Vagrants, street bums....

I had an event a few weeks ago when I went to a downtown movie theater to see a afternoon screening of The Lone Ranger.
A street guy wondered over to a couple & panhandled in front of my SUV then walked up to the driver's side window. He started to tap on the glass & I just ignored him. If he got more aggressive, I would have pulled out my M&P .45acp loaded with MagSafe SWAT rounds, ;).
He got the message & walked off.

Id be leery of being to harsh with homeless or street people.
"Homeless" people or some transients can be considered "hate crimes" if you do anything to them. :rolleyes:
 
"Why did you draw?"

"Because I was afraid for my life."

"Then why didn't you fire?"

BECAUSE THE THREAT SUBSIDED

A very simple answer and well within the script of most laws. I'm not "Marshal Dillon" and I'm not going to participate in a quick draw competition with a threat if I have any other choice. If I feel threatened, I WILL have my hand on my gun or my gun in my hand-but obscured. This has happened on two occasions and both times the aggressor realized he'd picked the wrong mark and he retreated.
 
My point, exactly. The threat "subsided" without a shot.

No draw necessary. In the view of an anti-gunner on a jury, that's guilty.

I'd think that folks who worried about the liability involved in the type and source of their ammo would put more thought into the decision of when to draw.

A weapon is not a magic wand.
 
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"Why did you draw?"

"Because I was afraid for my life."

"Then why didn't you fire?"

BECAUSE THE THREAT SUBSIDED
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This. I've been in this situation many times over the years. The threat usually ends without violence since most criminals are cowards at heart. That's why they look for weaker targets.
On a funny side note, the wife and I approached two trespassers at my shop one early morning, guns drawn, but at our sides and asked what they were doing there. Surprise, surprise! Two undercover LEO's! She covered while I had them slowly show ID after I explained I was armed and revealed my weapon and nodded to her to show hers.
They complied and we had an embarressed laugh about it.
As a rule though, you never have to clear leather if you're situationally aware of what's going down.
 
#3. My response would come from something I read on this forum. Don't do anything when you are carrying that you wouldn't do if you weren't armed. So in your situation; being polite and driving away would be the best policy.
 
I just want to add that while it is fine to view potentially threatening situations in retrospect and ask what one might have done better, I also think it is important to avoid taking on a general feeling of threat whenever approached by random individuals. My experience has been that the overwhelming majority of individuals that I encounter really are decent folks deserving of courtesy, respect, and if they are down on their luck, a measure of kindness.

I'm in no way arguing against the advice offered here, but it is important to remember that even in some of the roughest neighborhoods, the overwhelming majority of people you will encounter are just plain good folks.

So, yeah, make sure you spot the guy walking up on you, and keep aware for any signs that he might have some less than friendly intent, but also be open to just plain being a good member of the community.

(In my youth, I hitchhiked extensively, unarmed, unaware, reckless, and no doubt lucky but also encountered essentially salt of the earth folks even in places where I really did not expect such).
 
True story....

Years ago, around 2001 or so, I was doing a security detail at a low end apt complex in a medium size city. 2 guys came into the property manager's office, one looked like a surfer bum with cargo shorts, tank top and sandals. The other older guy wore a workshirt, vest and 5.11 type pants. He looked like a constructor worker or building contractor.
Both guys turned out to be; deputy US marshals. ;)
Both men were polite & professional, explaining to us that they were looking for a fugitive in the area.
My point is that you can't always make assessments or decisions based only on a person's appearance or other factors. Their actions or statements? Yes but you can get in a lot of hot water if you are wrong.

If there was a event you can absolutely bet both deputy US marshals would show in court to testify with fresh hair-cuts, clean shaven, wearing business suits. The judge and jury will look at you like you just kicked their dog, ;).
 
^ The story reminds me of a experience I had once.

Once I was in NYC I was going to a concert at MSG and was there early to check out the scene and walk around. It was average NYC a dirty bum pushing a shopping cart full of trash, a crackhead trying to spare change, a biker in a leather riding vest and a few other assorted street characters.

All the sudden they all pulled out guns and handcuffs and yelled "DEA" "Get on the ground" tossed 2 guys to the ground smashed their faces into the street and cuffed them. Cars started pulling up and more agents.

Craziest thing to see a dirty bum pushing a shopping cart full of trash and a few other street bums turn into a DEA thugs with a guns in less then a few seconds.
yea just never know.
 
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Ya just never know.

I arrested what I thought was a drug dealer one night, turned out he was an undercover Louisiana State Trooper. I thought that he'd be angry, but he thanked me later, said it gave him street cred. I told him that the next time he was working my parish, to let the desk know and we'd stay the hell away from his location. He worked the area hard for about a month, when his "arraignment" would be due, then we helped him serve about 15 warrants on cases he had made.

Good busts every one.
 
"Why did you draw?"

"Because I was afraid for my life."

"Then why didn't you fire?"

Seaman has the answer I use most often: compassion and spare change.
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I try to deliver the compassion and spare change while the engine is running and the vehicle is in drive. And if I get time, the gun is in hand and out of sight- for example, below my seat in the truck. Just because you draw, it doesn't mean it has to be visible.
 
Part of situational awareness is knowing where to eat lunch. ;)
Driving away could be an option. Keeping doors locked and windows up helps.
Sticking the gun in your crotch (between legs) might work... depending on the gun. I would not do this with my Glock but have with my S&W 442 JFrame revolver. Keeping an eye on your mirrors is beneficial.
 
"I got myself in a situation a few weeks back where I realized I could have been had. A gentleman approached me asking for money on the passenger side while I was parked eating lunch on the wrong side of the tracks. He was pleasant enough and I was able to dispatch him politely.

Upon leaving I realized so many mistakes I made:
1. I never saw the guy come up.
2. My pistol was in the center console and so not immediately available.
3. Should I have just told him to bug off and get away from my truck off the bat?
4. What would I do had he refused, but was not threatening entry?
5. If he did threaten entry my pistol in the console would have taken an extra move to draw.

Food for thought. "

Hello everyone my virgin post LOL.

1. Situational awareness
2. Have the gun accessible
3. I like the polite confidence route (with better SA you could have closed the windows)
4. Start up and leave but be prepared for him to attack
5. Don't get caught like that anymore.

The grey area in self defense IMO is when someone capable of causing death or grave bodily injury with their bare hands, gets within hands reach of you without you knowing what his intentions are. A punch is light years faster than a draw. Kinda sorta what happened to you here. Situational awareness being as vital as keeping distance between you and them until you can figure out their intent. Of course be prepared to engage the threat if need be.

Everybody gets "caught" flat footed. Don't believe anyone who says otherwise. For me my job is to reduce the frequency of getting caught off guard and the number of potentially dangerous people that get close.
 
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