Assault Rifle Laws

[Manedwolf]

Seriously, it's ridiculous paying to feed one anything like you'd want to shoot to make it worth your time, trouble, and money.

Depends what it shoots. If it's a 9mm, that's not so bad. Around $3 each full mag if you buy in bulk.

It's just that most 9mm Class III's are insanely expensive, like MP5s, Sterlings and such.

And if you use something that uses okay milsurp, it's not so bad either. A BAR could certainly run on the Korean surplus 30-06...that's what was in the one I got to try at the recent fundraiser thing here.

 

[VUPDblue]

Someone should re-name this thread

to "the vast oasis of incorrect information regarding NFA laws". Even after Shaggy's post, there is still so much BS flying around that it's getting hard to see clearly.

this is not including the $200 tax stamp for the gun and the $2000 tax permit for the person.

A $2000 tax permit huh? Incorrect. Only a $200 stamp per NFA item. (unless it is an AOW, then it's only $5...I digress) Unless you mean the SOT to become a manufacturer/dealer?

An NFA firearm holder must show the tax stamp to those authorized to ask, and the range safety officers where you shoot will ask, or you will be told to leave, and PD will be called.

On the forms (1&4) it only specifies that you must present the stamp to BATFE agents upon request. It would be common courtesy to present them to RO's if asked, but not legally necessary. They may deny you acces to the range if you don't comply, but that's their rule, not law. I know a lot of people with NFA items (myself included) and none of us have ever been asked to show the stamp by any authority. I was asked to show once by a member of my gun club, but I politely declined, citing confidentiality.

I am sorry earlier on this thread I mentioned about having a license for a suppressor, I meant for a silencer, thats what the owner told me.

There are nazis out there that will give you hell over the terminology, but IMHO, the terms are interchangeable.

Class III license is indeed possible, but it's entirely up to the approval of your sheriff or judge as to whether you can get it. Some areas are easy, some tricky, and some flat out 0%

If you want a suppressor, MG or other NFA item, you can get around the CLEO signoff by registering the items to a Revokable Living Trust where you are the trustee. The Trust Method does not require a CLEO signoff, fingerprins, or photograph.

The cheapest thing I've ever seen is the last-minute-registered MACs that run around $5K.

Actually, the MAC market is more in the $3k-$4k range. Ask me how I know

 

[Pat H]

I was over at my gun dealer's the other day and fired a few rounds through a suppressed HK USP .45 ACP. I have to say I was impressed at how quiet it actually was. Dealer says the suppressor cost $700.00 (not including taxes).

While it's interesting to think about owning an automatic weapon; the reality is that they're devices for turning money into noise.

 

[CrazyIvan007]

I have taken my AR-15 into the range many times. I get some onlookers, but no one has ever said anything to me.

It has kind of pissed me off lately though, because they don't let you shoot rapid fire anymore. They make you wait 1-2 seconds between shots. PITIFUL. There wasn't any other fun that driving tacks at 100 yards as fast as you could pull the trigger. I am currently looking for a better rifle range that does not descriminate against Semi-Autos.

 

[shaggy]

Seriously, it's ridiculous paying to feed one anything like you'd want to shoot to make it worth your time, trouble, and money.

Whether its ridiculous or not depends on what you like to do and what you can afford. I only take my beltfeds out 2-3 times a year and blow a few thousand rounds through them, but having a good time for an afternoon is well worth a few hundred dollars of ammo to me. And, as Manedwolf mentioned, it depends on the caliber. A $10,000 M16 can not only be used in 5.56, but a nice array of other calibers with just a quick change of uppers. 5.56 too expensive? Go .22 for a while...or 5.45x39, 7.62x39, 9mm, 45 etc.

Class III license is indeed possible, but it's entirely up to the approval of your sheriff or judge as to whether you can get it. Some areas are easy, some tricky, and some flat out 0%.

Reread my previous post. There are numerous individuals who can provide the CLEO signoff if one declines to do so (judge, DA, Chief of police, etc.) There are also ways to circumvent the CLEO signoff if NFA is allowed in your state (transfer to a corp. or trust).

Suppressors are much more worth it in terms of gain per $ spent.

While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, the fact remains MG's do appreciate in value while suppressors depreciate. Some of my MGs have provided a ROI in excess of 1000%. Beyond the financial aspect, they're just one heck of a lot of fun. That, IMHO, is a far better gain per dollar spent. Certainly the market has slowed recently - the credit crunch and the rising cost of ammo are part of it, but MGs will still continue to appreciate over the long term.

 

[Pat H]

While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, the fact remains MG's do appreciate in value while suppressors depreciate. Some of my MGs have provided a ROI in excess of 1000%. Beyond the financial aspect, they're just one heck of a lot of fun. That, IMHO, is a far better gain per dollar spent. Certainly the market has slowed recently - the credit crunch and the rising cost of ammo are part of it, but MGs will still continue to appreciate over the long term.

I agree, that it's a matter of opinion as to value of possessing a registered automatic weapon.

Would/are you supporting an opening of the NFA registry or removal of the restriction on automatic weapons all together?

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Would/are you supporting an opening of the NFA registry or removal of the restriction on automatic weapons all together?

YES! Feel free to kill the exorbitant value of my machineguns.

 

[Pat H]

Well, I'm not advocating a devaluation of your possessions. I am advocating a Constitutional law regulating firearms, which the NFA of '34 is not.

I don't think new full auto's will devaluate your Thompson's or Colt potato diggers.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

The reason machineguns cost so much is because there can be no new ones added to the transferrable category. I would be perfectly happy to see my multi-thousand dollar MGs drop to under $500 if the 1986 MG ban were to be done away with. I very much want to buy some of the new machineguns that I cannot now purchase, not because of price, but because the government won't let me.

 

[Manedwolf]

The absolute irony of the MG ban is that in many cases, a semiauto version is a much more complicated gun. A new M3A1 could be made in a machine shop for about $100 or so. The semiauto version took a lot of engineering.

 

[joshua]

A new M3A1 could be made in a machine shop for about $100 or so

Yup! and you can make the suppressor for less than $30. Wouldn't that be just dandy, if we take away all the regulations on NFA and all other firearms. We'll have a surge in sales of lathes and mills. josh

 

[Yellowfin]

The reason machineguns cost so much is because there can be no new ones added to the transferrable category.

New varieties or new specimens?

 

[VUPDblue]

New varieties or new specimens?

Specimens. No new machineguns of any kind.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

New varieties or new specimens?

No new anything. ATF has a registry of all transferrable machineguns. In 1986, that registry was frozen. Absolutely no machineguns, regardless of date of manufacture, may be added to the registry. That means there are a fixed number of machineguns that can be owned by civilians. Supply and demand has jacked the price up to where a machinegun that used to sell for $1,000 now sells for upwards of $20,000.

 

[shaggy]

New varieties or new specimens?

Neither for civilian use or possession.

Would/are you supporting an opening of the NFA registry or removal of the restriction on automatic weapons all together?

Absolutely. This seems to be such a common misconception among people who don't own MGs about MG owners; that those who have spent thousands of dollars more than these things are worth don't want to see the value of their guns drop. The fact is most of us who bought MGs at artificially inflated prices bought not as investments, but because we simply enjoy having and shooting them.

 

[VUPDblue]

The fact is most of us who bought MGs at artificially inflated prices bought not as investments, but because we simply enjoy having and shooting them.

Truer words have never been spoken.

 

[armoredman]

I've had machineguns and suppressors for about 20 years now and have never been asked by law enforcement or anyone at the range(s) to review my paperwork.

Cool. Nice to know that your local ranges and LE don't hassle NFA holders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armoredman
An NFA firearm holder must show the tax stamp to those authorized to ask, and the range safety officers where you shoot will ask, or you will be told to leave, and PD will be called.

On the forms (1&4) it only specifies that you must present the stamp to BATFE agents upon request. It would be common courtesy to present them to RO's if asked, but not legally necessary. They may deny you acces to the range if you don't comply, but that's their rule, not law. I know a lot of people with NFA items (myself included) and none of us have ever been asked to show the stamp by any authority. I was asked to show once by a member of my gun club, but I politely declined, citing confidentiality.[.quote]

I stated in that post "those authorized to ask", and that "range safety officers will ask" -NOT that they were authorized to do so by law. Yes, every range I have shot at/worked at in AZ required us to ask for paperwork from those utilizing NFA firearms, for the range's legal liabilty protection. If someone refused to show documentation, they were requested to leave immediately. Range rule, not a law. If your's aren't required to, great, good for you, keep supporting them. I had to follow company rules, and never recieved and flak back from any law abiding citizen from whom I requested paperwork.
I just wish for an overturn of NFA '34, so none of this stupidity will be neccesary in the future.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Independent of the NFA discussion, move to TX where we have carbine matches and 60 folks show up with ARs, AKs, FALs, P90s, CETEMEs, HKs and the like. Nobody on the range flips out. Lots of fun.

 

[blume357]

Okay, splain something to me...

I understand the terrible problem of there being no more transferable full auto guns... but what's the deal with being able to get a license to manufacture them? How does that work?

I also thought it cost $2000 for some type of baft paper work to own one. Are you guys saying that it only cost $200 for the tax stamp for the gun... plus of course the cost of the gun?

 

[Yellowfin]

A day at the range with everyone working with .308's, .270's, and .30-06's further solidified my position that suppressors would be VERY nice to have as a common courtesy for others nearby.