As strange as the world is getting... I may need more gun???

Its good to think thru -- or reevaluate -- your options !

The event in Waco caused me to think a little too...( and I'll stay with my full sized 1911, 5" barrel, in .45 acp )...and two extra mags / because the 1911 is still the gun I shoot the best.

( but I did take a look at a couple of my Sig 226's in the safe the other day ....)...in 9mm and .40 S&W...:D
 
I dont think the recent Waco event is a good example of why to carry a higher capacity CCW.

But we need to look at the world we live in. In the 80's maybe the big threat to self was a mugger. Now the rats travel in packs and flashmobs playing violent attack games.

As to the ISIS threat. I, by myself, am not going to make any difference in large scale attack. But i can make a difference if a lone wolf attacker opens fire at my daughters soccer game.

That scenerio is the reason i carry a full sized, high capacity, fighting pistol AND a reload. I may not start that encounter up close and personal with the gunman. I might be some distance away but NEED to act to protect my daughter, her teammates and others.

Unfortunately, the police can not be in all places at all times. If i have to step in and protect my family (and others), id rather have something more then a 5shot J frame
 
a medium / full sized revolver or duty sized auto, while a lot more inconvient to carry, might be really nice to have
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I like the medium sized semis, personally. Something with 12 - 15 round mags (9mm) is my sweet spot. They tend to be fairly convenient to carry, and the capacity is plentiful enough to make me feel plenty comfortable, especially if I have an extra mag. The trick for me is finding something that offers a full grip, since that is (at least for me) the biggest factor in whether I can handle it well. 12 - 15 rounds usually equals enough real estate for my hands without being too long for concealment, so it is a good jumping off point. My CZ P-07 with +2 extensions holds 17+1, and it still carries nicely IWB.
 
May I suggest instead of running out and buying a bigger gun or one that holds more ammo, instead invest in some reloading equipment and practice more.

Deaf
 
BigJimP - many good points but can you clarify a couple?
I prefer to stay away from all the double stacks
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Why? Concealibilty? Reliability? Hand fit?

If you hit the head...its an automatic fail....
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Why is a head shot a fail? Wouldn't that be a good outcome in a defensive shooting?
 
Listen. All of us who carry do so because you never know when some dope with road rage will box us in, in traffic and get out with a bat, or when some A-hole will pull a gun on the cashier in your 7-11. O.K. so the odds of something terrorist or mass shooting related are astronomical. The odds are the same for everyone who finds them self in such a situation. I carry a full size most of the time. Either a 10mm 14+1 in a shoulder rig or a 9mm TriStar T-120 in an IWB. Sometimes I want/need to go a little smaller so I just got a SAR B6PC. 13+1 but it takes the 17 or 19 round magazines that fit my TriStar. Either way I have 2 extra mags because it doesn't hurt a thing to carry them.
 
I believe there's more reason to be concerned about your safety than ever before.

Not because of terrorism, the threat was as great around 9-11 days as it is now AFAIC. To me it's because of civil unrest, mental illness and more potent drugs on the street.

I've been carrying a snub nose .38 for forty six years and feeling comfortable doing so. I also live in the country where there's little crime, especially the violent type. But every so often I'll go to an area where a higher capacity auto, to me, is more practical.

I like the Sig P320 Compact or Glock 19, 15+1 rounds each, for those times. Both are fairly easy to carry with the right holster/belt and clothes.
 
Dude, don't look now, but that's ISIS at the end of your driveway, and she's -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED-!

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Contrary to many, I don't think the world of today is any 'stranger' than it was 30, 300, or 3,000 years ago. People are people, which is to say very little removed from animals, and act violently to one another regularly. Violent crime in the US has actually been on the decline for decades, you just won't see that broadcasted much on the news.

I choose to only carry a semi-auto with at least 15+ on tap just based on the premise of encountering at least 2 armed and motivated assailants. I already was car-jacked by 3 armed men once, so I've seen how the "one in a million" odds of needing a gun in the first place can play out... You often hear guys say things like, "5 rounds is plenty. Once you shoot one badguy with your snub the others will run." My thinking is, ''what if they don't?" That's what, 2.5 rounds for each guy? ;) With as much information as we have nowadays about how much damage people can take in real life shootings, and how people actually shoot under life and death pressure, to me, taking on even just 2 bad guys who will not back down is a complete 'no-win' situation for a snubby unless you are Jason Bourne.

When I say 2, or more, "motivated" assailants, I mean motivated either by religious/political motivation, psychological makeup, drug stimulation, or just being plain tough and mean. This spectrum of people can be found anywhere, at any time in history. In our modern age we have access to a huge assortment of quality, high-capacity handguns with which to defend ourselves with that at least give you better odds than a 5, or even 6 shot, revolver when facing multiple motivated bad men.
 
SlimJim9 asked....BigJimP - many good points but can you clarify a couple?

Quote:
I prefer to stay away from all the double stacks

Why? Concealibilty? Reliability? Hand fit?

My personal opinion is width and weight are reasons not to carry it ...especially if we are talking about a full sized gun like a Sig 226 ...over a full sized 1911. I also prefer the trigger in a 1911 over any hinged trigger system ( being in my mid 60's now, the 1911 is the gun of my generation) and I'm real fond of it. I have big hands so a full sized gun is what I lean towards....but that is just me. Reliability is no issue...my Sig 226's have been 100% reliable...and triggers are ok / but they're hinged and move thru a big arc..and DA/SA sig trigger is pretty good / but its not as good as a well tuned 1911 trigger, in my view. Maybe because I've shot 1911's for over 50 yrs...there is just something natural about the feel and fit in my hands of a full sized 1911..( and I carry one either in 9mm or .45 acp )..all steel, 5" guns - I primarily train with the 9mm and carry the .45 acp / virtually identical guns except in caliber..both Wilson Combat guns.

Quote:
If you hit the head...its an automatic fail.... Why is a head shot a fail? Wouldn't that be a good outcome in a defensive shooting?

Because in stressful - tactical shooting - I've been taught for a long time that the best shot is center chest not the head. I think Massad Ayoob said in one of his books - that the head tends to move around as an attacker fires - where the center chest, if it presents itself to you as a target, remains relatively stationary even when the head may move.

So in the drill I designed - any shot out of that rectangle ( nipple to nipple and down toward belly button )....is an outright fail ....head, groin, etc ...are valuable targets in some situations...but I think its better to train to shoot center chest. I call that the "Tactically Accurate Rectangle"....where any shot in that rectangle, is just as effective as any other shot... 3" X 4" right in the middle is no better than the edge of the rectangle at any of the 4 points....( but I like to see a 4" X 6" area torn out of the target - if I can ) ---- and I can live, personally, with shots up or down in the rectangle better than shots on the edges left or right...which means I have better trigger control - and I'm not yanking them one way or the other.

I do have other drills - where we draw and fire 3 to chest ( and he won't drop - because it turns out he has armor on )...so the drill calls for a couple shots to the head or to the groin to take him down. The other factor, I believe, is the head only gives you about a 7" circle for a critical shot...vs glancing off the side of the skull, etc...

But I know others disagree....and that's ok / I'm no expert, just picking up things from a lot of good instructors...putting together what works for me / and how I practice at the range a couple times a week.
 
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It often seems that many gun enthusiasts automatically think about upgrading their "equipment" when reacting to some incident that makes headlines.

While equipment choice and selection is certainly a valid consideration, I often suspect that more often many folks might better benefit from given some further attention to their overall skillset, mindset and knowledge base. (How's your first aid knowledge?)

As a firearms instructor I get to see my fair share of folks who want to talk "Gear" improvements, or ask about the latest ammo they've read about, but seem to fail to realize how much more they might practically and immediately benefit from some "Skill" improvements.

Want to be "better prepared" for some potential situation? Make sure you're not just carrying more or "better" gear, but that you're bringing along improved skills, awareness and knowledge that may be even more useful.

And, just as importantly, get some understanding of when and how to act in an appropriate manner, skillfully and knowledgeably, which doesn't necessarily (or yet) require the gear.

Gear is just gear, after all. It often comes in a box.
 
^^^^That sounds like it ^^^^.

I got a little caught up in the drama and ordered a new Kel Tec P-11 to benefit from the 12+1 9mm rounds over my previous EDC, a 6+1 Kahr PM9.

So, I went to the range (my backyard) with some targets (9” paper plates) and four guns:

NAA Guardian .32ACP which I often drop in my pocket.

Kahr PM9 which has been a regular carry.

Star M40 which I have in the past carried fairly regularly, and,

the new Kel Tec P11.

With the targets placed at 21 feet, I fired 5 rounds from each.

NAA .32ACP: I never touched the target; not a single hole in the paper. I think I could have hit the target if I had thrown the little thing at it (it’s a bit heavy for its size) but I resisted.

Kahr PM9: 5 holes in the paper, one kinda flyer and the rest within 4 ½ inches of the center.

Star M40: 5 holes in the paper and all pretty close together, but I had to go down and re-mount the target after every shot blew it off the mount.

Kel-Tec P11: First shot went dead center on the target and it was the only one to hit the paper plate at all. I also found it pretty uncomfortable to shoot, despite having placed a new bicycle-tube section over the grip.

Lessons:

1. I think I’ll find something better to drop in my pocket
2. I don’t think I will subject myself to enough practice with the P11 to be likely to get good at it.
3. I’ve been carrying the Star since the above, admittedly abbreviated, trial with an extra mag.
4. Find more time to practice.

W.
 
Shall we be pragmatic and blunt for a moment?

Crime rates in the US have been falling steadily for 20 years. In most places they're at the lowest they've been in 50+ years. The odds of you needing to use your CCW are incredibly low. Needless to say, the odds of you having to heroically thwart a terrorist attack are even lower. Also, being realistic, if you run into anything other than a random stupid criminal you're almost certainly screwed whether you have 5 rounds or 50. A guy with a CCW has very little chance against a prepared attacker/terrorist who has an AR/AK and possibly body armor.

Is it really worth worrying about? Personally I carry either a LCP, G26 or G19 depending on the what I'm wearing, the weather, and what side of bed I got up on that morning. I feel equally comfortable with any of those three.
 
Old Bear and I see eye to eye. The scenario you're talking about is a CF. The odds of "ISIS coming to your town is almost zilch. The Waco scene is another animal. There is no way in the world that you can take on a gang like that unless you're Chuck Norris or have Delta Force backing you up with all of your team. We don't carry that kind of weapons or have that training. In my 65+ yrs. I have stood up or backed away from some hairy situations. I only carry a 357 mag with at lest 2 speed loaders. Anything more than that I'll either be in the Promised Land or hiring a great lawyer.

Doc, still alive and still kicking
 
Also, being realistic, if you run into anything other than a random stupid criminal you're almost certainly screwed whether you have 5 rounds or 50
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Merad,

You give up to easily. Plenty of cases where one person fought off multiple attackers. Just cause they are motivated does not mean you are not motivated to!

Just cause you are outnumbered does not mean you are whipped.

Crime may be lower NATIONALLY, but in the area where you move daily it may be way above any national average. Police call them 'hot spots'.

I've got one burglar and one purse snatcher to my credit, you might say I'm above the 'national average' on that, but I know it can happen anytime and anywhere.

And it's not the size of the dog in the fight... it's the fight in the dog that matters most. Keep prepared and keep alert.

Deaf
 
Posted by Merad:
The odds of you needing to use your CCW are incredibly low.
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The likelihood that one will be the victim of a violent criminal attack on any one day is far less than remote. Over a lifetime, however, the odds, though generally remote, are much higher.

The issue is the severity of the potential consequences. Should it happen, most of us would want to be prepared.

Also, being realistic, if you run into anything other than a random stupid criminal you're almost certainly screwed whether you have 5 rounds or 50.
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I don't know what you mean by "a random stupid criminal", but I do wonder what in the world has given you that impression.
 
Good question, OP!

On a normal day I usually carry a Glock 27 with a spare mag stashed in my console. I have never felt “undergunned” with that setup, and I know I can shoot it well. However, I have had the same question as the OP on my mind, lately. It hasn’t always been the case, but lately I have been feeling increasingly less comfortable on the days my dress only allows a pocket 380. I have always been a fan of the convenience of those little pistols, but when I stop and really think about defending my life, there are some issues… not just limitations on firepower and capacity, but also being able to make the shot(s). What about multiple attackers? 6+1 of 380 doesn’t exactly make me feel at ease. Believe me, I’m never looking for trouble, but when I’m packing a G19 or similar, it’s a definite confidence booster. I'm finally starting to lean away from lightweight convenience and more towards practical effectiveness.

Long story short, I’m currently trying to work an extra mag into my EDC rather than just leaving it in my console like I have in the past, no matter what I might be carrying that day.
 
Good question, OP!

On a normal day I usually carry a Glock 27 with a spare mag stashed in my console. I have never felt “undergunned” with that setup, and I know I can shoot it well. However, I have had the same question as the OP on my mind, lately. It hasn’t always been the case, but lately I have been feeling increasingly less comfortable on the days my dress only allows a pocket 380. I have always been a fan of the convenience of those little pistols, but when I stop and really think about defending my life, there are some issues… not just limitations on firepower and capacity, but also being able to make the shot(s). What about multiple attackers? 6+1 of 380 doesn’t exactly make me feel at ease. Believe me, I’m never looking for trouble, but when I’m packing a G19 or similar, it’s a definite confidence booster. I'm finally starting to lean away from lightweight convenience and more towards practical effectiveness.

Long story short, I’m currently trying to work an extra mag into my EDC rather than just leaving it in my console like I have in the past, no matter what I might be carrying that day.
 
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