Are you concerned about police "no knock" warrants?

admitedly I cut and pasted it from another forum. But I did google many of the names and found the descriptions to be accurate.

I think we (and police) all have GOOD INTENTIONS about busting the bad guys but I dont fully trust the governmental forces at work that see this as a way to muddy peoples rights.
 
MikeGoob said:
In the other, 21-year-old Cory Maye was asleep with his 18-month-old daughter. When police kicked down the door, Maye mistook them for criminal intruders and fired his gun. His bullet struck and killed officer Ron Jones, the son of the town's police chief. Maye, who had no prior criminal record and no history of violence, was later convicted of capital murder and sentenced to death
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This example shows that "No Knock"raids are WRONG and should be stopped. Anyone that shoots an intruder in the above mentioned manner should not be arrested; much less sentenced to death. This man was innocent of any crimes and fired upon an intruder. It is not his fault the police did not identify themselves as such.
 
This example shows that "No Knock"raids are WRONG and should be stopped. Anyone that shoots an intruder in the above mentioned manner should not be arrested; much less sentenced to death. This man was innocent of any crimes and fired upon an intruder. It is not his fault the police did not identify themselves as such.
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Well the thread run longer than i thought it would before the bashing reared its head lol .
 
My problem isn't with the no-knock raids themselves. I think they have their place in law enforcement. My problem is basing the application for the warrant solely on information from snitches or "confidential informants" without corroborating evidence. If a snitch tells an officer that a house is being used for drug trafficking I would hope that the police would have to confirm that through surveillance or undercover buys before just kicking the door in in the middle of the night. I know it isn't a perfect world and people make mistakes but when the stakes could mean innocent civilians dying or LEO's shot by civilians who think they're the subject of a home invasion instead of a warrant service then I think more care should be taken.
 
Without no-knock entries, bad guys would be MUCH more likely to get away with their crimes, because the police would have to give them WARNING before they came in and caught them with the evidence!
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How? "no Knock" for what? Drugs? If you can flush the evidence away between knocking, identifying and waiting a reasonable amount of time for someone to answer, how much could you flush? Ever timed the commode? It seems like and eternity for it to fill up for another flush to me, and I am just trying to 'fit it in' between commercial breaks. :o If the police were worried about flushing evidence, one of the raid team with a water key could reduce the chance of 'getting away with their crimes' to one flush.

BUT, if you look at it, the ability of the government to perform searches and seizures of property really is a GOOD thing. It helps catch bad guys. People get hurt? Then, we need to train the officers better. We DON'T need to BAN the officers, any more than we need to ban the doctors at the hospitals.
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Anyone got a lighter for this straw man?

Yeah, doctors who have interviewed me, been paid by me, and had my consent operate on me somehow are on the same level in your mind as police who 'attack' me without notice in my home?

:rolleyes: Live a while longer.
 
how much could you flush? Ever timed the commode? It seems like and eternity for it to fill up for another flush to me, and I am just trying to 'fit it in' between commercial breaks
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Actually, they can flush quite a bit in that time. The smart criminals keep buckets of water next to he toilet and just pour the dope and water contiuously. The toilet doesn't stop as long as water is going in.
Most people on this board aren't criminals, so this type of technique would never cross your mind. But ask a narco about all the crazy ways criminals dispose of or hide evidence.Typically, LE tactics are responses to criminal techniques.
 
f you can flush the evidence away between knocking, identifying and waiting a reasonable amount of time for someone to answer, how much could you flush? Ever timed the commode? It seems like and eternity for it to fill up for another flush to me, and I am just trying to 'fit it in' between commercial breaks.
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Let me be the first to simpithise with you and your " plumbing " issues . LOL howeaver we are actualy talking about the disposal of evidince by any means to hide it from the court/LE If your making 10k a day selling crack you really dont care if you torch the entire rental house/apartment to hide evidince of your crime . Meth labs are the original ied for LE . Digital storage of info is easily perminantly erased by heat or chemical means. Lets not even discuss the cranked up biker you are serving a warrent on for selling / converting firearms .
Now i do agree with rantingredneck that no knocks are too freely given , but when it comes down to it again that goes back to a judge and a prosicuting attorney , not the officers serving the warrant . Somewhere during the course of the warrant application the prosicutor decided that there is a substantial risk of evidince being distroyed or an officer safety issue here that rises to the level of kicking in a door , and a judge agreed with that premise . When things go south tho who takes the heat ... the officers following the court's order . Some tac teams are truely a joke and imho should be dis-banded , but even they serve warrants according to what it says on the paper . Why do we hold the poor underpaid bastards wearing the tin and carrying the paper responsible for every bad raid, and then rail at bloombirg and his crowd holding shop owners responsible for criminal purchaces . In both instances imho the easy, visible scapegoat is blamed while the responsible or even criminal element of the incident is ignored . You want less no knocks , well get on your local prosicutors , and judges not the local officers or tac teams .
 
Rangermonroe

After reading your post I think I can safely make two assumptions:

1. You're not a cop

2. You're not a crook
 
I don't have problems with no knock warrants. in my city the swat team only conduct no knock raids if they know for sure that the suspect has a weapon. its just safer for them to rush in without announcing who they are. crime in america has gone up since the 80's and that's the reason why swat is called out more now than they was in the 80's.
 
It has never happened to me, my neighbors or anyone that I know or knew, i don't even think it has ever happened in my town, but I'm very concerned, I always think of this poem everytime i watch cops knocking doors down on TV.

First they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up, because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for me, and there was no one left. to speak up for me. ...
I and many others have had to make deliveries in places where you step over people that are either drunk and passed out or could even be dead, i never cked any for a pulse, no lights in the halls, ect. i can't remember how many CB, radios, i've had stolden but the point is we don't have a swat team with us ,so I just think there is a better way to arrest someone than going in with 20 cops,dogs, tazors,ect and scaring the whole neighborhood.
 
I agree with with old 12 gauge.

The drug dealers are a threat to health and safety of the community. Every time I see a swat team hitting a drug house it seems to me much of what they do is a threat to health and safety of the community especially the people living very close to the house they are assaulting.

I won't even go into what happened recently in Atlanta or the TV shows where swat teams partially demolish houses pulling out the doors, windows etc. The fact that they sometimes get nothing is even more worrisome to me.

S-
 
There is another thread somewhere here where people are complaining that the police only react instead of being proactive like they used to be. I'm not sure what they mean by that but I expect they don't mean anything related to this thread. But you all want to be policemen anyway, don't you. Was that the same thread that said that the police never show up when there are gunshots?

As to the person who said crime has gone up since the year X, I wonder. I just did a quick look at the statistics on both the Justice Department and the FBI web sites and it suggests that crime generally is down since 2002 except for firearms related crimes. There is a basic problem with statistics, of course, in that you can just about say anything you want by picking the statistics.

However, I tend to agree with the basic premise that the SWAT teams might just be inappropriately utilized. But if you equip someone like a soldier with body armor and a rifle, what do you expect?
 
There is a computer game called SWAT that actually takes you through the steps to complete and serve warrants. Complete with all the cool toys, you start with the breach, enter and clear a room, arrest suspects and any civies, report all TOC and gather up eveidence. Depending on how many arrests to kills determines your score. Points get deducted for unauthorized use of force and deadly force.

Surprisingly this game shows how difficult it can be sometimes for officers to aprehend armed suspects. The rule (in game) is to order a suspect or civie to get on the ground. If they don't you cannot actually shoot them until they fire first or if you can shoot before they do when they aim at you. This can be difficult because sometimes they are dropping the weapon but it lloks like they are about to shoot.

Of course another tactic is to take less lethal and enter with either pepperballs or bean bag shotguns. Less lethal is becoming more popular since it averts mistakes officers can make and allows for a fire first ask later tactic. There are more gadgets like laser lights that temporarily blind suspects and do not require perfect accuracy in a hostage situation.

For example the officers who entered the bible ladies house (found seeds in her trash) could have used a CS grenade instead of just breaching and clearing.
 
The innocent citizen who pressured his congressman to implement laws that encourage no-knock warrants and then gets killed or kills a cop and is prosecuted richly deserves what he's done to himself.
 
SWAT teams are a part of appropriations for police departments. In order to validate their existence and keep them funded, SWAT team/s must be used. The usage of such a team may not be justified, however, the use of a team justifies it's existence, from a retarded government view point. Those that are, or have been, employed by government can affirm this.

Urban Ninjas need jobs too. Use em or lose em.

Don't worry. They are here for your security wether you like it or not. Play by the rules and there will be no problems.
 
I find it rather interesting that Popular Mechanics found this enough of an issue to print it in their magazine, as well as post it online.

The article also suggests that police raids should be videotaped.
 
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