Are you concerned about police "no knock" warrants?

MikeGoob

New member
This sort of thing is becoming more and more common. Check this:

This story was in a recent publication:

UNREASONABLE SEARCHES AND SEIZURES
The Rising Use of SWAT Teams is Bad, But its About to Get Worse

This past term, the Supreme Court ruled in Hudson v. Michigan that evidence seized in an illegal raid can be used against a defendant at trial, even if police had disregarded the requirement to knock and identify themselves before entering. Taking away the only disincentive for these raids is likely to exacerbate an already unsettling trend: the rise of paramilitary tactics in police departments across America. Nearly every U.S. city now has a SWAT team, as do many small towns. Below are some examples of raids gone wrong and the tragic consequences.

FAIRFAX, VA
In January 2006, a SWAT team apprehended Sal Culosi, a local optometrist accused of betting on sports with an undercover detective. As Culosi came out ot meet the officer and pay the debt, the SWAT team descended. One officer's gun apparently discharged accidentally, hitting Culosi in the chest and killing him instantly. Culosi had no prior criminal record and no history of violence. Police found no weapon at his home. A Fairfax police department spokeswoman told the Washington Post that the department serves most of its warrants with a SWAT team, even for nonviolent crimes. One leading criminologist estimates the number of SWAT call-outs each year in the U.S. has increased more than 1300 percent since 1980, to 40,000 per year, or about 110 per day.

SUNRISE, FL
In August 2005, a SWAT team raided the home of Anthony Diotaiuto, a bartender and part-time student. Police say the team was necessary because Diotaiuto owned a legal, licensed and registered handgun. Diotaiuto had no history of violence and one prior conviction for marijuana possession as a minor. Police say that as they raided the home, Diotaiuto met them in the bedroom with a gun and they opened fire. HIs bullet-riddled body was found in a closet. Police discovered two ounces of marijuana. Raids are extremely violent and confrontational, and on dozens of occasions, non-violent offenders have been killed in cases of mistaken identity or mistaken intent.

OMAO, HI
In March 2005 police mistakenly broke into the residence of Sharon and William McCulley on a drug raid. The McCulleys, home with their grandchildren at the time, were thrown to the ground at gunpoint. William McCulley, who uses a walker and has an implanted device to deliver electrical shocks to his spine to relieve pain, began flopping around on the floor when the device malfunctioned from the trauma. Police then erroneously raided a second address before finally arresting several men for distribution of marijuana. There are now hundreds of documented cases of "wrong-door" raids, during which SWAT teams have entered the wrong home, terrorizing innocent people.

DUNDALK, MD
In January 2005, a SWAT team in Baltimore County descended on the home of Cheryl Lynn Noel at 5am, after finding marijuana seeds in the family's trash. (Raids are generally conducted late at night or early in the morning.) When officers entered Noel's second-floor bedroom, the middle-aged woman sat upright in her bed, frightened, holding a handgun that she owned legally. A SWAT officer fired twice from behind a bulletproof shield, hitting Noel in the chest, then fired a third shot at close range. Noel died at the scene. Friends and acquaintances described Noel as a person who ran a Bible study group on her lunch breaks. Research has turned up more than three dozen cases in which wholly innocent people have been killed in paramilitary raids.

LEVITTOWN, PA
In February, 2004, police raided the home of James Hoskins, looking for his brother. Police broke down the bedroom door, and an officer fired after mistaking for a gun the T-shirt Hoskins was using to cover his genitals. The bullet ripped thorugh Hoskin's stomach, small intestine, and colon. Hoskins didn't learn that the intruder who shot him was a police officer until he awoke from a coma weeks later. Police arrested Hoskin's brother for possessing a small amount of marijuana. SWAT teams were once used only in rare emergency situations such as hostage takings or bank robberies; now the're used most commonly to serve drug warrants. SWAT raids are also often conducted on tips from confidential informants who are notoriously unreliable.

PRENTISS, MS
In December 2001, police stormed a small duplex on a tip from a confidential informant that drugs were inside. In one apartment they apprehended Jamie Smith, a known drug dealer, and found a substantial amound of marijuana. In the other, 21-year-old Cory Maye was asleep with his 18-month-old daughter. When police kicked down the door, Maye mistook them for criminal intruders and fired his gun. His bullet struck and killed officer Ron Jones, the son of the town's police chief. Maye, who had no prior criminal record and no history of violence, was later convicted of capital murder and sentenced to death.


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As a legal gun owner, a mistake on their part like this will most likely end with someone (us) losing their life.
 
Seems like I allways bring it up in my short time being a member here.Just about every one of these jacked up swat adventures happens becuase the war on drugs. If this kind of thing scares you, you might want to look into what you can do to end the war on drugs.
 
I have some pot head neighbors but they mind their own business. Sometimes I do get worried the cops (or the SWAT who dont know me or my neighborhood) will kick in the wrong door while im sleeping. Im on the right side of the law, and I dont want to bash law enforcement so hopefully that wont come across in this thread.
 
Mike. Why don't you take a poll. I'm willing to bet that not a single person on this board has been subject to a no-knock warrant. In fact I'd be willing to bet that the number of no-knock warrants that have been wrongfully executed is so small it doesn't even begin to approach half of 1%.

Now before all of the paranoid people shw up screaming to high heaven, I haven't fully made up my mind about this tactic. I can't adequately express it but something about this doesn't sit well with me.

What I do know however is that we need to put this in an accurate perspective. This isn't 1984. This doesn't happen all the time. In fact this doesn't very much at all. Its probably within the struck by lightning category. It may be a problem but those who act like its an epidemic aren't being honest.
 
being the son of a cop I usually agree with police tactics. however before he died my dad DID warn me that police tactics are becoming much less loving of civilians. he cited a trend towards "us against them" attitude and a general erosion of public rights. No, this is NOT a police-bashing thread
 
The thought of it scares me more than an actual bad guy coming to break in. To the point where I even consider not having a gun handy at night.

But I, also, havent heard of it very often. So it could be rare, and it could be a new tactic that gets results for police and they may ramp it up. Is it exaggerated? Maybe. It just reminds me of the erosion of our 2nd Amendment rights and the gradual rise of a police state--like you'd see in a fictional movie.
 
Just about every one of these jacked up swat adventures happens becuase the war on drugs.

Well not really lol . Warrents are jacked up every day , drugs tend to get swat because dope dealers tend to have weapons , and the press loves swat . But no knocks are actualy approved by a court ( this is not decided by any LE dept you do realise ) normaly due to a chance of the evidince being easily disposed of . ( dope fits here as well as many information crimes that are increasingly coming under no knock ) . Basicly for the layman , if you can flush it , or burn it , or push a button and delete it , its evidince that MAY meet approval for a no knock .
Now understand the warrant team will get a court document instructing them to go to an address and search/arrest in this manner . They go do this , if someone resists then they meet resistance with more force than is presented in order to effect the warrent ( you dont want to go back to a court and explain why an order from it was not followed , especialy since you personaly will likely not be allowed to speak , the attny who was having supper at the time you attempted to serve said order will speak for you ) . As a service officer, swat or not , and no warrent is only served by swat , just the ninja turtle costumes ( easy boys i have been point on service myself lol ) are good press things . You likely will have little more information than is in the affidavit and warrant . You do not participate in the investigation , you do not evaluate the snitch , hell you dont even see any of the players before you go inn. Do things go wrong YES , and shoud someone be held accountable YES . Howeaver it isnt the fella on a team that gets a breefing 45 minutes before he invades a property . He is there to save lives ( police and civillian ) by being able to bring talents and training to a situation that is not avalable to the average . Most likely he got into the " swat " section because he felt he had more to offer the community than he could show on patrol , jail , or whateaver duty . Rambo and Mel Gibson are not welcome on teams , its about doing right when others cannot do right ... not about abusing grandma .
 
Police say the team was necessary because Diotaiuto owned a legal, licensed and registered handgun.

There is no handgun registration in FL. Makes you wonder if all the rest of the info in the anonymous publication was equally accurate.
 
Ive googled the names for case information. From what I can tell those cases are pretty accurate--or at least they made the papers.
 
You know, there's a "saying" I keep seeing posted on this site. It's something like, "By the logic of the anti-gun lobby, because most people die in hospitals, we should ban doctors." This saying (in its various forms) is meant to show that gun banning legislation is stupid, and that the ban would do more harm than good.

I feel the same way about "no knock" entries. Just because you find some instances of things going wrong and people getting hurt with no-knock entries, you think we should ban the practice altogether? This is illogical! Without no-knock entries, bad guys would be MUCH more likely to get away with their crimes, because the police would have to give them WARNING before they came in and caught them with the evidence!

Look, I understand the Libertarian perspective is to dispose of the powers of the government altogether. BUT, if you look at it, the ability of the government to perform searches and seizures of property really is a GOOD thing. It helps catch bad guys. People get hurt? Then, we need to train the officers better. We DON'T need to BAN the officers, any more than we need to ban the doctors at the hospitals.
 
No. I'm not in the least bit scared of no-knock warrants. And I truly believe that while mistakes will happen in every single thing in existence that involves humans, such as police work, there is no maliciousness on the part of police. I truly believe that they are trying to protect us and punish criminals, not trying to lord their power over us. There are a lot of bad things about the law and such in this country. But I think 100% of the blame lies with legislatures, NOT with the actual departments and officers executing their orders. If you told me to make a list of the problems with modern America, over-zealous police would not be on my list.
 
In fact I'd be willing to bet that the number of no-knock warrants that have been wrongfully executed is so small it doesn't even begin to approach half of 1%.

Does it have to, to be a problem?
 
Does it have to, to be a problem?

No, but I absolutely detest it when people use the exception and hold it up to be the rule. As was pointed out, there will always be mistakes no matter what the activity and no matter how careful people are. But lets not take an honest mistake and make it out to be something that is not.

This is not an epidemic or a inkling of thing to come.
 
It seems that I move further outside the law everyday without changing my behavior at all.
Link to full article below:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,205040,00.html

Drug War Police Tactics Endanger Innocent Citizens
Friday, July 21, 2006
By Radley Balko

Winston Churchill is commonly credited with having said, "Democracy means that when there's a knock in the door at 3 am, it's probably the milkman."

One wonders what Churchill would make of modern-day, drug war America.

For the last year, I've been researching a study on SWAT teams, "no-knock" raids, and the rise of paramilitary tactics in domestic policing (the study was released this week). The trends I've found are troubling, and some of the individual stories are absolutely heartbreaking.

Each day in America, police SWAT teams raid more than 100 private homes, many times very late at night, or very early in the morning. Many times, these teams don't even bother to knock. Because these raids are violent, confrontational, and often conducted on questionable intelligence (I'll get to that in a moment), they've left a long trail of "wrong address" raids on frightened innocents, needless injury, and even death.

Since the early 1980s, the U.S. has seen a 1,300 percent rise in the number of SWAT team deployments, from 3,000 per year in 1981, to more than 40,000 per year in 2001 (the number is likely even higher today). It's of no coincidence that this dramatic increase has taken place over the period the U.S. has reinvigorated its war on drugs.


Did you really think that we wanted those laws to be observed? . . . We want them broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against - then you'll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of law-breakers - and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

badbob
 
No-knocks are symptomatic of the increasing use of confrontational tactics by police. The more often confrontational tactics are used, the more often unfortunate mistakes will occur.

No-knocks are like many other things - they have a purpose but can be problematic when used for the wrong purpose.
 
Not worried about them, but don't care for them either, shouldn't be allowed.
If you want to stop drug traffic busting the guy with a few dime bags isn't gonna ever do it, and you can't flush a few of pounds of anything. Stop it where most of it starts or at our borders, not kicking in some low end dealers door like he was a terrorist. Accidents happen even if it is extremely rare. We don't need this in America, IMHO.
 
I'll say this for the war on drugs. Let's stop doing no-knock warrants, and START firing LAW rockets at any and all illegal vehicles we see crossing the border.
 
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