Are shooters their own worst enemies?

It not just shooters, it's people in general.

My property butts up against some MDC land, this MDC area consist of about 3800 acres, two very nice lakes with boat ramps, and a few designated camping spots.

After a weekend especially a holiday weekend you would be amazed at the amount of trash this area generates, left to be picked up of course, my main pet peeve is the dirty disposable diapers strewn everywhere.

Trash leaving trash.
 
To answer your original question: No, shooters are not their own worst enemy. Immature, irresponsible, lazy gun owners are. I suspect these folks don't actually shoot much.

Unfortunately, they're all of our worst enemies as well.
 
That's just plain old inconsiderate and disrespectful. At my old range I used to stick around after shooting to clean up other peoples messes because I couldn't stand to see it in that state. It was a town owned range and besides the Boy Scouts once a month coming to clean it up, it was up to the Park Rangers to do the cleaning.
 
Old Stony,

It's probably not your immediate friends. They may have just mentioned they had a great time shooting at a place - and then there come the complete strangers *and their cousins unaccompanied by anyone you know.

It would be hard to prevent it unless you post a No Trespassing sign or make it *appear* like it's no longer a shooting range. The Izaak Walton league I used to be near made it really prohibitive so that you really had to get through a lot of hoops to go there - less careless folks typically.

If you want to discuss it with the land owner, you could install a gate with a combination lock on a chain. That would keep unwanted trucks out. The farther from the range the better - it would make them have to lug their stuff farther on foot. And plant trees or fence posts so you couldn't just drive around the gate. That's what my league originally had before they went with an electric gate. And only give the combo to your friends. And change the combo every year. And ask your friends to remember to be hush-hush about it too.
 
A friend lets me and a very few others use his range, but since it doesn't belong to me, I don't give permission for anyone to use it unless I am with them. Even then, I am very selective. Even if my own son wants to use it, I call my friend to make sure it is ok. So far, no trash.
 
Out here the state DNR and local timber companies have pretty much closed most of their roads to public use except on foot or by written permit. Maintenance funding is an issue, but the public has changed over the years and trashing public lands and facilities is the norm. The local National Forest is seeing $30,000 restrooms in campgrounds destroyed year after year. Highway corridors are closed to all shooting due to some folks shooting back across the highways. Designated shooting areas need continual cleanup and enforcement.

You can no longer rely on people to behave properly. You're lucky there aren't six appliances dumped on your shooting range.

Deal with it now or it will get worse.
 
Sigh. More people I guess means more people misbehaving. Sad.

Here in MN a landowner rescinded the permission he granted to the Superior Hiking Trail (Near Lake Superior) to use his land. He let the a portion of the Trail cross his land for years but the behavior of some just got to be too much including some hikers harassing a person he had allowed to bow hunt on his property.

A very short explanation of the situation/problem is given here.
http://bringmethenews.com/2015/04/2...owner-to-close-part-of-superior-hiking-trail/
 
My range is nicely fenced off from a public road with no trespassing signs posted. It is a privately owned game preserve that I manage, and I set up the range on one corner of the 1100 acre property. I have a comination lock on the gate and change the combo occasionally, so I am pretty sure any damage is from someone I have allowed to use the area.
The more I think about it, I have a pretty good idea who the culprit is and we are going to have a serious talk very soon. I think he and his young son will be policing the area soon as I'm sure they won't want to lose the ability to use the range. Sometimes I guess you just have to get peoples attention.
 
This is exactly the same situation that has ruined hunting for many.

A property owner - NOT the OP - is allowing a second party on his land. The second party sets up a range and allows his friends and acquaintances to use it. Those friends and acquaintances then pass on where it is to allow others to go there.

Pretty soon the property owner and the first delegated user find people pretty much doing whatever they please with it. That IS human nature - to exploit and go too far with access.

Nothing new here. Now the gate is "open," and as word of mouth spreads it, things will likely go from bad to worse. It only takes one "friend" or "acquaintance" to ruin it, which is the reason we have all the laws we do.
 
Human nature: some issues due to ignorance, some to laziness, some to disrespect. The users really have to have some type of "ownership" to be willing to take care of the resource and even then ignorance will lead to damage (example - "I didn't know green tip ammo would punch through the steel targets!")

To foster "ownership", I'd suggest: Locked access, issue numbered keys, charge something for range maintenance, let all those invited have the "members list".
 
It only take one or two bad ones to ruin things for nearly everyone. There WAS a Range by me used to be like that too. very open and friendly. Too many people being dumb and the owner closed it off, and is now only accessible to a select few.
 
Post NO TRESPASSING signs and require permission in writing to use the range. Make signs saying that and post the signs at the entrance and at the range itself. Take photos proving the signs are visible by all who enter. Put up game cameras hidden to get license plates and faces of those who enter. Report unauthorized use as trespassing to the police and have the offenders located and arrested. License plates and cell phone records make it easy for police to identify criminals. Press charges and testify at their trial if they dont plead guilty. Post mugshot pictures of arrested trespassers at the entrance gate. You don't get to keep what you don't defend. Once word is out that if you trespass you get arrested and convicted, people will respect your property.
 
I had a very polite discussion about the range last night with the guy I suspect to be the problem. I think we have the situation ironed out as I told him we could lose the use of the land if it is not kept in good condition. He agreed to police up the area and keep it that way. Now I probably just have to wait for the next guy to trash it....but maybe I'm just being pessimistic.
I pretty much have unlimited access to all the hunting, fishing and recreation of that type an old guy can handle.......and I'd like to keep it that way.
 
Mathmatical odds are against us. Even if your idiot to common sense ratio is 99:1, the one idiot has the power to blow it for the other 99. In order for it to work you need cooperation of all 100. In order for it to fail, you only need 1 to work to that ends. The only way to make sure the 1 idiot does not blow is that all 99 of the others must police the 1.
 
Slobs, not shooters are the problem.

Slobs are everybody's worst enemy. They come in every imaginable group from shooters through boater to hikers/backpackers & campers aren't exempt either.

Unfortunately we see it as shooters, because we're shooters so we go where slob shooters go, but I've experienced it in many other forms.

Hiking & backpacking in the Ozarks I go "above the trash line" to avoid others & have some separation.

Fishing I'm constantly amazed by the amount of tackle just left hanging in branches that ca be reached & so on.:rolleyes:
 
Talking to some folks will help, others less so.

You're going to have to close the site, clean it up, and then limit use to your friends, and no one else. You're going to have to be there.

Were I the landowner, I would expect you to manage the site you asked me to allow a lot better than you are. Nothing personal, but people require proactive, not passive, management. The days are long gone when simple signs could regulate behavior, sorry to say.
Click to expand...

Indeed. Unless I read incorrectly its not your property. If I were the owner and saw that I'd disallow you from using it.
 
Get Real!

Quote:
Post NO TRESPASSING signs and require permission in writing to use the range. Make signs saying that and post the signs at the entrance and at the range itself. Take photos proving the signs are visible by all who enter. Put up game cameras hidden to get license plates and faces of those who enter. Report unauthorized use as trespassing to the police and have the offenders located and arrested. License plates and cell phone records make it easy for police to identify criminals. Press charges and testify at their trial if they dont plead guilty. Post mugshot pictures of arrested trespassers at the entrance gate. You don't get to keep what you don't defend. Once word is out that if you trespass you get arrested and convicted, people will respect your property.


Yes, that is a great idea but have you added up all the costs and time to do that.
I'm a small land owner and every year we have to run people off the property for hunting, trespassing and dumping trash. It happens every year. Then when we catch someone hunting red handed, the police act like we are the villains and one time, actually apologized for having to bother the hunter, trespasser, poacher, for taking up the villains time. I'm sorry but, I give up. The first thing out of the officials mouth is, do you have signs posted every one hundred feet and are these signs the official signs required for this type violation. Give me a break, these jerks are on my property that I bought and pay taxes on.
Rant off!
 
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If I had a shooting range I had set up on private property, I would only let very close friends shoot with me and only while I was there.

There are to many people that are happy to screw things up for everyone for their 5 minutes of fun. Most shooters I know are pretty quiet about their shooting habits and where they shoot, until they know they can 100% trust someone.
 
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