Are mid level power 357's worthwhile?

There have been studies of the disruption of sighting performance due to muzzle flash.
Click to expand...
Glenn, I've seen studys that show civilian gun ownership causes crime, so I don't always trust what I read. In this case I've actually burned some ammo on the farm testing with and without flashlights, with and without nightsights and various loads from mild to wild. I found out that if it's light enough to find your sights without nightsights and ID target that muzzle flash, even a snub w/296, doesn't disrupt sighting performance. Nightsights will help find the sights a little darker but it's a small window before it's dark enough that you can't see the target because you can't see past the glow of the sights. now if it's too dark to ID your target and see your sights then what difference does afterimage make your firing blind anyway?
 
Try this after fully being dark adapted for 30 minutes. The afterimage and masking are significant. If there is enough light to see your sights reasonably well, you aren't fully dark adapted.

But the issue is whether muzzle flash can disrupt vision and the answer is yes under deeply dark adapted conditions.

Whether you don't believe studies or want to shoot at folks you can't see, it is not my problem.

However, if you use a powerful tac flashlight and are fully dark adapted - and then light up a close target - the light will be disruptive. The bounce back off your target will hang in your vision for quite a bit and can cause a reflex look away.

Mesopic conditions aren't a test of that effect.
 
But the issue is whether muzzle flash can disrupt vision and the answer is yes under deeply dark adapted conditions.
Click to expand...
Your arguement is a paradox because that issue is only an issue when it not an issue.
The only way muzzle flash is bright enough to disrupt vision is when it's too dark to shoot.
I would think it would be far more productive to discuss weather it's is an issue when it does matter.
Just like with the sound issue I wasn't saying a 164 Db 357 mag is safe or won't damage hearing, like your making it out, But that a 157 Db 38+p isn't safe either and just as likely to damage hearing.

I guess if you want to continue arguing that 38+p loads are better than 357mags because they are not likely hurt your hearing and won't impair your vision when shooting in total darkness that's your choice. But IMHO I'm not the one giving out dangerous advice.
 
Last edited:
However, if you use a powerful tac flashlight and are fully dark adapted - and then light up a close target - the light will be disruptive. The bounce back off your target will hang in your vision for quite a bit and can cause a reflex look away.
Click to expand...
Good point and that's the reason I switched my G3 surefire out for a executive defender in my nightstand. 200 lumins produces too much bounceback 110 lumins works much better for me. But I don't think that has anything to do with the effectiveness of mid range 357 loads.
 
Remember everyone a hand gun is not a good defensive weapon. Its better than nothing but still not the optimium choice. A center mass shot does not mean instant death to a bad guy. Unless you hit the head or spinal area there is no guarantee that the bad guy won't get up again and attack you.
My point is even the best ammo will not get the job done unless a person hits what he is aiming out.
Howard
 
I use 180gr hollowpoints for my 357: SD, HD, shooting for fun

I am low on ammo right now...one of my 357s has two to three 38 arounds in there so it stays fully loaded(hollowpoints, the old CIA/FBI loads)

*I don't ever mess with the speedloader. I consider my self 'out of ammo' when my speedloader or any handgun is not fully loaded
 
Not the way the argument went but we will let the reader decide.
Click to expand...
Are you saying your arguing an issue that is of no purposeful use?
How can muzzle blast affect sighting if it's too dark to see your sights?
How can muzzle blast affect your ability to see your target if it's too dark to see your target?
If your so dang worried about muzzle blast affecting you vision when firing blindly why don't you just close your eyes?
For tha record I'm not condoning firing blindly into the dark, that'd be you that's trying to make that a relevant point.
 
Since you seem to know little about dark adaptation - I will indulge you once more.

In full dark adaptation, there is enough light to see but not with color vision and fine acuity.

In full dark adaptation, where you can see - a bright flash will have an extreme effect on central vision.

Full dark adaptation does not mean no light or pure darkness.
 
Since you don't seem to understand how full dark adaptation actually relates to a self defense shooting I'll indulge you once more.
If there is not enough light for color vision and fine acuity you can't use your sights or ID your target making it irresponsible to have muzzle blast in the first place.
I guess you feel it's real damn important to avoid muzzle flash to what purpose? So you can make another irresponsible shot?
 
Last edited:
You are factually wrong about the level of vision you have under full dark adaptation and using tritum night sights.

You certainly could identify in your house, the shape of your daughter vs. a large male intruder.

You have backtracked on your original statements and are now just being silly as you can't admit being incorrect.

Continue to do so if you wish.
 
You certainly could identify in your house, the shape of your daughter vs. a large male intruder.
Click to expand...
My god now your gonna condone shooting at shadows. ya that's responsible advice.
BTW my daughter's boyfriend is 6'2" you still want me to shoot at shadows?
how many points is that dangerous advice worth?:confused:
 
Last edited:
The reader can decide your expertise.
Click to expand...
I'm far more concerned that a staff member of this respected sight would suggest shooting at an unidentified outline just cause it's too big to be my daughter.
 
mavracer said:
I'm far more concerned that a staff member of this respected sight would suggest shooting at an unidentified outline...
Click to expand...
The word you wanted here is "site."

But be that as it may, I'm familiar with Glenn's education and qualifications. He can also put some actual data on the table. Apparently all you have to offer is your anecdotal experience. So I really find no reason to pay attention to your opinion.
 
Another staff member and a attorney at that condoning shooting at shapes in the dark. good luck with that I'm outta this one.
 
mavracer said:
Another staff member and a attorney at that condoning shooting at shapes in the dark. good luck with that I'm outta this one.
Click to expand...
Actually, no one really said that, but it's really not worth trying to discuss it with you.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top