roashooter
Moderator
Yes they are
Are bolt action rifles REALLY more accurate than semi-auto ones?
- Thread starter MosinNOUGAT
- Start date
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Generalizing, yeah, bolt guns shoot tighter groups than semis.
Few of today's major brands of basic bolt guns won't shoot groups near one MOA.
Few basic semis from the various manufacturers will group that tight.
Again, "basic"; not the worked-on, somewhat custom, special-purpose versions.
Few of today's major brands of basic bolt guns won't shoot groups near one MOA.
Few basic semis from the various manufacturers will group that tight.
Again, "basic"; not the worked-on, somewhat custom, special-purpose versions.
As you have seen in writing, semi-auto rifles CAN shoot about as well as bolt-action rifles. On average, I'd say they don't.
There are very good reasons for having a bolt-action over a semi-auto. One being that reloaders can reuse brass cases with fewer problems. Reloads can be lighter or hotter than those that function well in many semi-autos.
Reloads don't cause as many problems in bolt guns because chambering and extraction is more robust and they don't rely on a certain amount of cartridge energy to operate the action.
Bolt guns are easier than most semi-autos to clean and are less likely to hurt the shooter if something plugs the barrel in the field, then it's fired.
Bolt guns also tolerate cold, snowy, or icy weather better than semis. I've cleaned many Rem 742s after the owners took them out in the rain and put them away wet. It's not a pretty sight.
Bolt actions are often lighter than semi-autos, so they're easier to carry on long hunts. For instance, my Tikka T3 Lite is a fantastically accurate and easy-to-carry rifle.
Most good hunters don't need more than one shot. After the first shot, a critter is often moving fast, so second or more shots are not a big advantage, except for wide open shots on varmints like coyotes or hogs, where a person can shoot more than one.
Shotguns used for flying or running small game are a different story. Semi-auto shotguns can harvest small game on second or third shots easier than pumps. Bolt-action shotguns are the pits!
JP
There are very good reasons for having a bolt-action over a semi-auto. One being that reloaders can reuse brass cases with fewer problems. Reloads can be lighter or hotter than those that function well in many semi-autos.
Reloads don't cause as many problems in bolt guns because chambering and extraction is more robust and they don't rely on a certain amount of cartridge energy to operate the action.
Bolt guns are easier than most semi-autos to clean and are less likely to hurt the shooter if something plugs the barrel in the field, then it's fired.
Bolt guns also tolerate cold, snowy, or icy weather better than semis. I've cleaned many Rem 742s after the owners took them out in the rain and put them away wet. It's not a pretty sight.
Bolt actions are often lighter than semi-autos, so they're easier to carry on long hunts. For instance, my Tikka T3 Lite is a fantastically accurate and easy-to-carry rifle.
Most good hunters don't need more than one shot. After the first shot, a critter is often moving fast, so second or more shots are not a big advantage, except for wide open shots on varmints like coyotes or hogs, where a person can shoot more than one.
Shotguns used for flying or running small game are a different story. Semi-auto shotguns can harvest small game on second or third shots easier than pumps. Bolt-action shotguns are the pits!
JP
It's true, and has been since the invention of semi automatics. But its only true when you lump everything together in groups. Individual rifles of either type can be more accurate than other individual rifles of either type.
Do note the huge percentage of "accurate" semi autos mentioned in the responses are ARs. When talking about accuracy and semi autos, about the only one discussed these days is the AR (and variants). And its true, the current generation of the AR design is accurate, generally, it is the most accurate semi auto ever produced, to date.
Now add in all the other semi autos that aren't generally as accurate as the AR, (such as AKs, and dozens of other military and sporting designs) and I think your average accuracy for "semi automatics" will be a bit lower than taking all the bolt actions, military, sporting, & target, and doing the same.
Simply put, there are two basic things that impact the accuracy of semis vs. bolt actions.
First is the fact that accuracy is repeatability. The gun fires every shot exactly the same way. The harmonics of the rifle vibration during firing being as close to exactly the same every time, is what makes a rifle accurate, or not.
The greater the number of parts, and moving parts, the more difficult this is to achieve. The more complex mechanism of a semi auto makes it more difficult to get uniformity than the bolt action. (More difficult is not impossible)
The other thing is simply, the overwhelming majority of semi autos were never designed with ultimate accuracy in mind. They were designed and built to be accurate enough to do the intended job. If a 3MOA rifle reliably puts meat in the freezer or takes down enemy troops, there's very little reason to spend the time & money to build a sub MOA one, IF it can even be done.
Jayhawkhuntclub
New member
Some auto rifles over the years have been notoriously inaccurate. The old Remingtons were known for shooting beach ball sized groups. The AR15, on the other hand, is an exceptionally accurate platform. Most cheap AR15s, in my experience, will shoot sub-moa. Some will shoot much better than that. Of course it helps if you do a trigger job. It's tougher with a unmodified mil-spec trigger group. I suppose, in theory at least, bolts are more accurate. But on average my ARs have out shot my bolt guns over the years. Of course YMMV.
Zen Archery
New member
Yes...
GuyWithaGun
Inactive
Yes, and no..
Art of the rifle has guys hitting steel at 1 mile with both types of guns.
For most mortals, bolt is USUALLY more accurate.
Of course i would like to see more of the semi guys at the range shoot further than 25 yards too.
There is a guy who frequents my range who uses an m1 with a scope out at 200+ so it does happen albeit rarely
Bluecthomas
New member
For a more casual shooter like myself, one big advantage of bolt or even lever action is they fire almost anything.
For a casual shooter, biggest difference is how long it takes to dump X amounts of ammo down range.
Due to ammo costs, I've got a bolt, a lever and a semi auto 22. Bolt is single shot (inherited that one), 100 rounds in about 45 minutes. Lever holds 19 22lrs, 100 rounds in 10 minutes. Semi with two already loaded 50 round drums, 100 in a minute max.
Semi is very ammo picky though. Won't fire the cheap stuff reliably.
For a casual shooter, biggest difference is how long it takes to dump X amounts of ammo down range.
Due to ammo costs, I've got a bolt, a lever and a semi auto 22. Bolt is single shot (inherited that one), 100 rounds in about 45 minutes. Lever holds 19 22lrs, 100 rounds in 10 minutes. Semi with two already loaded 50 round drums, 100 in a minute max.
Semi is very ammo picky though. Won't fire the cheap stuff reliably.
CalmerThanYou
New member
Soooo it's the magazines fault.
IMO, there's a couple of factors at play here.
One is the ID-10-T user end of things. The human part is
mostly shooting a purpose built rifle, and concentrating
on each round's individual accuracy. By my observation,
most folks seem to shoot a bolt-action more carefully.
With the semi-auto, follow-up shots cycle more quickly,
in effect de-emphasizing accuracy.
Two, the cost of the average bolt-action, vs the cost of the average
semi-auto. Prices being approximately the same, in the semi, the
money is going into gas, cycling, and recoil systems, while accuracy parts,
like the barrel, are, in many cases, an afterthought. It's easier to
build an accurate platform at a much lower cost, with the bolt-action.
I must respectfully admit that with my AR with the bull barrel,when I
shoot at the slower bolt-action rate, it is more accurate than my
bolt actions. The topic statement could be viewed as a generalization.
If you are willing to invest properly in the accuracy of your semi,
for the additional cost you will be rewarded with very satisfactory,
if not amazing accuracy, given the assumption that you can hold
up your end of the shooting equation.
Three-the lower sight plane of a bolt-action lends itself to a
larger field of range, giving better overall accuracy from any
point of zero. From what I've seen, at least.
All that said, there is no substitute for constant shooting practice
with your particular firearm.
One is the ID-10-T user end of things. The human part is
mostly shooting a purpose built rifle, and concentrating
on each round's individual accuracy. By my observation,
most folks seem to shoot a bolt-action more carefully.
With the semi-auto, follow-up shots cycle more quickly,
in effect de-emphasizing accuracy.
Two, the cost of the average bolt-action, vs the cost of the average
semi-auto. Prices being approximately the same, in the semi, the
money is going into gas, cycling, and recoil systems, while accuracy parts,
like the barrel, are, in many cases, an afterthought. It's easier to
build an accurate platform at a much lower cost, with the bolt-action.
I must respectfully admit that with my AR with the bull barrel,when I
shoot at the slower bolt-action rate, it is more accurate than my
bolt actions. The topic statement could be viewed as a generalization.
If you are willing to invest properly in the accuracy of your semi,
for the additional cost you will be rewarded with very satisfactory,
if not amazing accuracy, given the assumption that you can hold
up your end of the shooting equation.
Three-the lower sight plane of a bolt-action lends itself to a
larger field of range, giving better overall accuracy from any
point of zero. From what I've seen, at least.
All that said, there is no substitute for constant shooting practice
with your particular firearm.
Last edited:
Don Fischer
New member
The only semi-auto rifle's I've ever shot other than 22's, are the M-16 and M1 carbine. That was while I was in the service. But I think generally speaking, bolt's are easier to get to shoot if they have a good barrel. Reason being they are so easy to get bedded right. On all my rifle's the only thing bedded in is the action, barrel's float free. On semi-auto's, those I'm aware of, the fore arms are hung off the fore end of the rifle, wouldn't know where to start to bed one of them. Early on that was also a problem with the high end single shots also. But someone figured out haw to do it and I understand they can be made to shoot very well. In the semi-auto's there is always the exception to the rule. Of course this is so only if your looking for something more accurate than what hunting requires. If it's simply a hunting rifle your talking about, semi-auto generally shoot better than need be.
MosinNOUGAT
New member
It probably is more of the shooter than the gun.
Rangerrich99
New member
In general, yes.
Some people like to say that their AR/semi-auto rifle will out-shoot most bolt rifles they own or have shot, but the unasked question is, how much was spent on that semi-auto rifle and the ammunition?
Case in point: I have a Ruger SR556E ($1100) with a $300 scope, Magpul buttstock ($80) and a $235 two-stage trigger. So total cost about $1,400. Using factory PMC 55 gr. ammo it will shoot about 1.5 MOA. Using my reloads it will shoot 1/4 MOA. Notice I said, IT will shoot 1/4 MOA; I usually shoot about 1/2-1 MOA with it.
My bone-stock Savage M110 ($370 w/ crappy scope) .30-'06 using Remington Core-Lokt 165 grain bullets will shoot 1/2 MOA. With my reloads I can shoot 1/4 MOA pretty consistently. I added a scope for about $250.
So to get the same accuracy between these two rifles I had to spend an extra $750 or so on the AR. My other ARs won't shoot 1/4 MOA, but they were only about $550-650.
If one spends the same money, in most cases the bolt rifles will be more accurate, and as range increases, the longer barrels of bolts make accurate fire easier to accomplish.
Most of the issue has to do with the basic design philosophy behind the platforms in question, IMO. Battle rifles/semi-auto sporting rifles/whatever were never designed to be 1 MOA or less rifles. All of my ARs were designed to be no better than 2 MOA rifles. I can spend money and make them better, but as designed, they are 2 MOA. OTOH, all bolt rifles built today have to shoot at least 1 MOA or no one will buy them.
The AR type semi autos,when free floated,have only the gas tube as an outside influence on accuracy.
In this way,they are very similar to bolt rifles with free float barrels.
And they tend to shoot very well.
Now,if you take an otherwise accurate bolt rifle and hang a bayonet on it,it may not shoot so well.
Which somewhat illustrates a point. Many semi-autos use the barrel for more than an undisturbed tube to launch bullets.
It becomes a semi-auto using the barrel as structure to hang gas systems ,forends,etc on. Or the barrel moves in bushings to recoil operate the rifle.
In some cases,the components anchored to the barrel have a fixed length. When these components do not heat up the same as the barrel,the effect is like a bi-metal strip. They walk as they warm up.
A semi-auto deer rifle like a Remington or a battle rifle like a Garand generally does not deliver the same degree of accuracy as an equivalent barrel quality bolt gun.
However,the Garand and the Remington rifles will shoot better than most individuals can shoot them,and the deliver plenty of accuracy to do the job they were intended for.
I'm all in favor of guns being a place where you get to exercise and enjoy your own preferences.
I live in Colorado. Hunting tends to involve uphill,downhill,thinner air,longer range.And maybe longer walks,and meat packs than some of the other places that have different conditions.
With respect for your preferences,a 7 lb rifle beats a 9 lb rifle in my world for hunting.
I want steady crosshairs on the boiler roombefore I squeeze. I expect a one shot kill or I don't shoot.If I could only load three in a bolt gun,I would consider myself to have an abundance of firepower.
For hunting,I'd choose a 6 1/2 lb single shot over an 8 to 10 lb semi auto,all else equal.
I'd choose a 1 MOA single shot over a 2 1/2 MOA semi auto ,all else equal.
In the middle is a 7 or 8 lb bolt rifle that shoots 1 MOA
Those work for me.
Now,somewhere else? Hogs in the bushes? I might think different.
In this way,they are very similar to bolt rifles with free float barrels.
And they tend to shoot very well.
Now,if you take an otherwise accurate bolt rifle and hang a bayonet on it,it may not shoot so well.
Which somewhat illustrates a point. Many semi-autos use the barrel for more than an undisturbed tube to launch bullets.
It becomes a semi-auto using the barrel as structure to hang gas systems ,forends,etc on. Or the barrel moves in bushings to recoil operate the rifle.
In some cases,the components anchored to the barrel have a fixed length. When these components do not heat up the same as the barrel,the effect is like a bi-metal strip. They walk as they warm up.
A semi-auto deer rifle like a Remington or a battle rifle like a Garand generally does not deliver the same degree of accuracy as an equivalent barrel quality bolt gun.
However,the Garand and the Remington rifles will shoot better than most individuals can shoot them,and the deliver plenty of accuracy to do the job they were intended for.
I'm all in favor of guns being a place where you get to exercise and enjoy your own preferences.
I live in Colorado. Hunting tends to involve uphill,downhill,thinner air,longer range.And maybe longer walks,and meat packs than some of the other places that have different conditions.
With respect for your preferences,a 7 lb rifle beats a 9 lb rifle in my world for hunting.
I want steady crosshairs on the boiler roombefore I squeeze. I expect a one shot kill or I don't shoot.If I could only load three in a bolt gun,I would consider myself to have an abundance of firepower.
For hunting,I'd choose a 6 1/2 lb single shot over an 8 to 10 lb semi auto,all else equal.
I'd choose a 1 MOA single shot over a 2 1/2 MOA semi auto ,all else equal.
In the middle is a 7 or 8 lb bolt rifle that shoots 1 MOA
Those work for me.
Now,somewhere else? Hogs in the bushes? I might think different.