Charlie Golf
New member
Anybody have a favorite?
Are all pepper sprays equal?
- Thread starter Charlie Golf
- Start date
Fox 5.3 has a lot of supporters. Go to http://www.defensedevices.com
Danindetroit
New member
Be very careful about pepper spray, and check your state's law on content, some contain CN, and pepper spray. I think in MI you are limited to only pepper, and 1/2% to 1 %. I have never looked it up but they issue pepper spray to Probation officers that is .5%. That's the wife got a .40.
Danindetroit
New member
Another chapter in the long list of how states don't care about LE emploees, until one dies.
Thank you for the info alric, I check out www.mi.gov for laws, is there a particular site or place where you get info, my wife does use a formulation that is fifferent from any of the other's that yo mention. She got it from www.galls.com, they have things for le, corrections,paramedic,firefighters, very neat site, and the mag has very good descriptions of products. TIA for any info.
Thank you for the info alric, I check out www.mi.gov for laws, is there a particular site or place where you get info, my wife does use a formulation that is fifferent from any of the other's that yo mention. She got it from www.galls.com, they have things for le, corrections,paramedic,firefighters, very neat site, and the mag has very good descriptions of products. TIA for any info.
The two best sprays (in my opinion) are Fox Labs 5.3 and Sabre Red.
Percentage means nothing alone. You can have a 10% spray, but its 10% of what?
Fox Labs is only 2% but its 2% of pepper spray rated at 5.3 million SHUs
Sabre Red on the other hand is 10% of pepper spray rated at 2.0 million SHUs
In general higher percentages will work similiar to lower percentages for initial take down, only take longer to decontaminate.
Carry fox labs, you wont be disappointed. Just remember to replace at least once every 2 years (from date of purchase).
Percentage means nothing alone. You can have a 10% spray, but its 10% of what?
Fox Labs is only 2% but its 2% of pepper spray rated at 5.3 million SHUs
Sabre Red on the other hand is 10% of pepper spray rated at 2.0 million SHUs
In general higher percentages will work similiar to lower percentages for initial take down, only take longer to decontaminate.
Carry fox labs, you wont be disappointed. Just remember to replace at least once every 2 years (from date of purchase).
Pepper Spray
Charlie,
Stick with something that is 100% pepper spray (oleoresin capsicum) and stay away from combination sprays such as those with CS or CN.
DJW brings up some good points about percentages and there is no governing board that confirms these ratings.
I am an instructor-trainer in chemical restraint systems and have 24 years of law enforcement experience. I have been sprayed with a variety of mixtures and delivery systems and I didn't enjoy ANY of them.
You should also learn about decontamination procedures "just in case." I had more than one officer over the years whose kid or wife got hold of the spray and accidently hosed themselves down. BIG problem...especially if you don't know what to do.
Feel free to e-mail me if I can be of further assistance.
Charlie,
Stick with something that is 100% pepper spray (oleoresin capsicum) and stay away from combination sprays such as those with CS or CN.
DJW brings up some good points about percentages and there is no governing board that confirms these ratings.
I am an instructor-trainer in chemical restraint systems and have 24 years of law enforcement experience. I have been sprayed with a variety of mixtures and delivery systems and I didn't enjoy ANY of them.
You should also learn about decontamination procedures "just in case." I had more than one officer over the years whose kid or wife got hold of the spray and accidently hosed themselves down. BIG problem...especially if you don't know what to do.
Feel free to e-mail me if I can be of further assistance.
Danindetroit
New member
Can I ask about the problems with cs or cn? TIA
It's not really that CN or CS have 'problems', per se----outside of the fact that a median lethal dosate does exist for them-----it's that when combined with OC you are simply complicating the clean-up procedures and, potentially, negating some of the effect of the OC.
I've been exposed on several occasions to OC, CN and CS. When OC is involved, you wouldn't want to 'dilute' it with anything else!
Just my .02,
Larry
I've been exposed on several occasions to OC, CN and CS. When OC is involved, you wouldn't want to 'dilute' it with anything else!
Just my .02,
Larry
I agree with what DT said, adding "tear gas" (cn or cs), is not the best thing in a spray and likely doesnt make it anymore effective. It is more of a marketing gimick.
Tear gas is only an irritant, while OC (pepper spray) is an inflamatory. This means that tear gas will not work on a person who is on drugs or intoxicated because it relies soley on pain. Pepper spray should work to a certain degree on these individuals because the responce of the eyes (slamming shut) and the respatory system (coughing, choking) is involuntary.
The only two products I would trust which are a mix of pepper spray and tear gas are : "Freeze +P" and "Sabre".
But again, stick with either Fox Labs 5.3 or Sabre Red and you wont have any problems.
Tear gas is only an irritant, while OC (pepper spray) is an inflamatory. This means that tear gas will not work on a person who is on drugs or intoxicated because it relies soley on pain. Pepper spray should work to a certain degree on these individuals because the responce of the eyes (slamming shut) and the respatory system (coughing, choking) is involuntary.
The only two products I would trust which are a mix of pepper spray and tear gas are : "Freeze +P" and "Sabre".
But again, stick with either Fox Labs 5.3 or Sabre Red and you wont have any problems.
Dusty Miller
New member
Forget the pepper spray.
For a whole lot less money you can defend yourself with a spray bottle of ammonia.
For a whole lot less money you can defend yourself with a spray bottle of ammonia.
A survey of 878 uses of CAP-STUN brand 5.5% law-enforcement-only pepper spray uses by West Virginia State Police found that it was minimally effective, ineffective, or totally ineffective nearly a third of the time.
This is a good thing to bear in mind when considering the use of 2% pepper spray as a defensive tool.
This is a good thing to bear in mind when considering the use of 2% pepper spray as a defensive tool.
ANY pepper spray can fail. I've personally emptied a 1.8 Oz can of 2million shu spray into a person's face (wearing glasses, but I was able to see it running through his eyes) and then saw the person drive off, completely unimpaired.
Found out later he had 100+ arrests.
ALWAYS be ready for ANYTHING (OC, baton, firearm, howitzer) to fail, and have a plan B at the ready.
Larry
Found out later he had 100+ arrests.
ALWAYS be ready for ANYTHING (OC, baton, firearm, howitzer) to fail, and have a plan B at the ready.
Larry
Mvpel -
You said:
"A survey of 878 uses of CAP-STUN brand 5.5% law-enforcement-only pepper spray uses by West Virginia State Police found that it was minimally effective, ineffective, or totally ineffective nearly a third of the time.
This is a good thing to bear in mind when considering the use of 2% pepper spray as a defensive tool."
Cap-Stun is not a highly used spray anymore, at least not in my area. But again you are focusing too much on the percentages. I think Capstun is 5.5% of 500,000 SHU Spray. While Fox Labs is 2% of 5,300,000 SHU Spray. Notice the extreme differance in the SHU (overall heat level). Thats a difference of close to 5 million SHU.
Comparing pepper spray based on percentages alone is kind of like saying a 115 grain bullet is better than a 95 grain bullet. You have to ask yourself, 115 grain of what? JHP or FMJ? You see a 115 grain FMJ bullet may actually be less effective than a 95 grain JHP in terms of stopping power. The same holds true for OC Spray. A 10% 500,000 SHU spray may actually be less effective than a 2% 5,300,000 spray. See what I mean?
Also keep in mind that many police departments use 'weaker' sprays for a number of reasons:
1) Liability
2) Decon Time - Dont want to babysit a prisoner for 2 hours while they decon from the spray
3) For law enforcement, pepper spray is just one tool on the use-of-force spectrum. In other words if the spray fails, they can move up to say ASP baton strikes or deadly force if the situation warrents.
So when people say, this spray is law enforcement strength or something like that you know it is complete BS because as a whole police use weaker sprays. (at least thats how it is here in Rhode Island. An employee at a local police supply store told me that the only agency in RI that uses Sabre Red is the ACI (state prison) because it is "over kill")
The problem with the pepper spray industry is that it is highly unregulated. So people use a cheap spray and are disappointed with its results. Use sabre red of fox labs and you will probably get about 80% to 90% effectiveness if you land a good hit on their face. But like anything else you had better have a backup if it doesnt work or at least a good pair of running shoes
You said:
"A survey of 878 uses of CAP-STUN brand 5.5% law-enforcement-only pepper spray uses by West Virginia State Police found that it was minimally effective, ineffective, or totally ineffective nearly a third of the time.
This is a good thing to bear in mind when considering the use of 2% pepper spray as a defensive tool."
Cap-Stun is not a highly used spray anymore, at least not in my area. But again you are focusing too much on the percentages. I think Capstun is 5.5% of 500,000 SHU Spray. While Fox Labs is 2% of 5,300,000 SHU Spray. Notice the extreme differance in the SHU (overall heat level). Thats a difference of close to 5 million SHU.
Comparing pepper spray based on percentages alone is kind of like saying a 115 grain bullet is better than a 95 grain bullet. You have to ask yourself, 115 grain of what? JHP or FMJ? You see a 115 grain FMJ bullet may actually be less effective than a 95 grain JHP in terms of stopping power. The same holds true for OC Spray. A 10% 500,000 SHU spray may actually be less effective than a 2% 5,300,000 spray. See what I mean?
Also keep in mind that many police departments use 'weaker' sprays for a number of reasons:
1) Liability
2) Decon Time - Dont want to babysit a prisoner for 2 hours while they decon from the spray
3) For law enforcement, pepper spray is just one tool on the use-of-force spectrum. In other words if the spray fails, they can move up to say ASP baton strikes or deadly force if the situation warrents.
So when people say, this spray is law enforcement strength or something like that you know it is complete BS because as a whole police use weaker sprays. (at least thats how it is here in Rhode Island. An employee at a local police supply store told me that the only agency in RI that uses Sabre Red is the ACI (state prison) because it is "over kill")
The problem with the pepper spray industry is that it is highly unregulated. So people use a cheap spray and are disappointed with its results. Use sabre red of fox labs and you will probably get about 80% to 90% effectiveness if you land a good hit on their face. But like anything else you had better have a backup if it doesnt work or at least a good pair of running shoes