AR-15 The Most Versatile Rifle Ever???

How about one in .30-06? Try the HK940:
hk940ad.jpg


Or even better - take a look at the following link:
The SLB 2000 available in Cals: 6.5 x 55/7 x 64/.308 Winchester/.30-06 Springfield/.300 Winchester Mag./8 x 57 IS/9.3 x 62. Nice! Just hope this one gets imported!

http://www.hkpro.com/slb2000.htm
 
RikWriter, of the millions of active gun owners in the U.S., how many are ever gonna have to clear a building?

I guess I'm coming from the standpoint of probable uses, pragmatic needs. For 99% of "normal" uses, any para-military weapon is pretty much like the unnecessary appendages on the proverbial bull.

I see nothing wrong with the '06 for clearing a building (worked okay in the ETO); I just wouldn't want a bolt-action for such a use. I note that a shotgun would serve quite well, once you're inside...

Granting that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I personally have the individual opinion that the black plastic para-military stuff is yougly. Right at being coyote-ugly.

:), Art
 
I can convert my 30-06 bolt gun to a semi auto with the addition of a Pedersen device.
Can you convert your AR to a bolt gun? NOT.


I can beat your AR in half with my bolt gun, and it will still function.
You can break an AR buttstroking a cockroach.

I have a wider selection of bullets, greater range and killing power.
The AR is effectively out of gas at 300 yards.

I can defeat 1" plate armor at 100 yards with ball ammo.

I can use a scope without needing to peel off and replace my upper or carry handle, or add a block of plastic to the stock so I can see through it.

I can clear malfs by opening the bolt.
AR users need to disassemble their weapon.

ARs suck.
 
The AR is just hyped because there is so much after-market stuff for
it.

Yet the SIG 550 is superior in many ways:

- I can turn it into a bolt gun (yea, you can turn off the gas system)
- It has a collapsible buttstock.
- low profile sights (if your head sticks out too far, you're DEAD)
- tritium sights are an original feature
- removable triggerguard
- it's damn precise, and still looks military
- better gas system than the AR, less prone to jamming when really
dirty
- integrated bi-pod
- you can clamp mags together by the studs (the AR mags need a special
clamp for this)
- folding triggerguard for winter firing

And a lot more I'm not thinking about.

If you need short versions, get a SIG 552 SWAT, it will be shorter
than any CQB AR. Get a 550 sniper, you will have a real precision
weapon. Get the 550 if you want the real feeling.
 
DO NOT SPEAK ILL OF MY BABIES! I WON"T HAVE IT!




Hehe, but seriously given the opportunity to only have to goto the dealer to sign the paper work once for a firearm that can be transformed into a great many configurations as well as chamberings while using the same base platform for all variants is quite a cool thing.



It's expensive to play the game that's for sure. But my custom AR15 is seriously the most fun squirrel gun in existance and I don't think it's possible to find a rifle more perfectly suited to the job than a properly configured AR15. I've made hits at 400 yards with the rifle and it's accurate enough for hits at 500 and beyond but I'm just not a good enough shooter yet to make hits at the 500 yard line, I've kicked dirt in their faces and put bullets under their bellies though on countless occasions.

I also have an adjustable gas system on my custom AR, if I should want to turn it into a straight pull bolt action then I can do it with the simple turn of a screw in the gas block.



Price of the rifle system is it's most prohibitive feature. By the time you get a base AR15 system(I always go flattop for VERY simple addition of a scope) and then grab an additional upper or two, you've got in your hands one very expensive rifle. There isn't really any "cheap" AR15, even the ones that are junk coming from an outfit like ASA or Hesse aren't really all that cheap.




mussi, if I could have gotten a SIG 550 type for the collection I WOULD HAVE! Too rare of a bird in the US and I live in Ca. so I'm screwed on both counts.


MAD DOG, I'll let you know how nasty my AR10 is if I manage to get it chambered in 300WSM. It's not an AR15 but it is still an AR type. Also like my AR10 just because of the fact that it shares magazines with the M1A, now when I get an M1A some day I'll already have magazines for it.
 
I am just dying to see how long an aluminum POS receiver can handle the .300WSM.
BWAHAHAHAHA


You say that,"There isn't really any "cheap" AR15, even the ones that are junk coming from an outfit like ASA or Hesse aren't really all that cheap."

I say:
All ARs are "cheap" as in chintzy, low quality, badly designed, ugly, plasticy, inexpensive materials and execution; but they are ALL very overpriced. They are all junk.

[C:/form mental image of beer cans being remelted to pour into mold for AR receivers and uppers]
 
Mad Dog, I love it:

"You can break an AR buttstroking a cockroach. "

The best one sentence description of AR I've ever seen...
 
MADDOG, you ever handle an AR10? Ever seen the size of the thing? Truthfully it's not the aluminum receiver that bothers me when considering the 300WSM, if you really wanted to make a worth while comment about the 300WSM in the AR10 then you'd mention that the bolt and barrel extension of the AR15/AR10 are the most critical parts of the system and with the 300WSM the most major concern would be with those two parts rather than the AR10 upper and lower receiver.


Do you forget that there are people out there abusing their aluminum AR15 lower receivers with things as potent as the 50AE and 458SOCOM where felt recoil is on the level of a 12 guage shotgun? The owner of the Tromix company has even built a few M16s chambered for the 50AE where the things like abuse can really be tested.



Anyhow, I have a real good time watching bolt action shooters chase the groups I can shoot with my custom AR15. My rifle isn't even as accurate as this breed can get when you're playing in the space gun game.

It might not suit you but for me it does just fine, wonderful in fact. And after a bit of time behind the butt of the rifle most other people can appreciate it as well.


Not to say that my love affair with the AR15 family leaves me biased towards other firearms. I like plenty of other firearms types as well, I just haven't had time to build up my collection of other fine rifles because Ca. forced me to buy what I could before I could no longer aquire any more of them.
 
My Winchester 30-30 does everything I demand of it. Goes deer huntin' when my brother-in-law twists my arm, protects the homestead, goes camping with me, and for a grand total of...drum role...$175 bucks. VALUE..a very unique concept.:) Best, J. Parker
 
You guys might not like the AR - fine.

You might have had a bad experience in the past with one - fine.

You might even prefer (shudder) a different style of weapon - fine. But the AR 15 style weapon is still THE most versatile weapon platform in existance, bar none. Anyone who says different is just ignorant of what is available out there or is just plain too biased against the AR to concede to reality.

Like Uglygun, I realize there are other wepons out there which work better in certain situations than the AR. (Still LOVE my FN, George!) But the topic is verasatility. Nothing does it better. Nothing even comes close.

Hey, Uglygun - Look heavier into the .458 SOCOM over the .50AE. (I want Tromix's new offering - the .475 Tremor! :cool: ) But regardless which you get, let me know and I'll take you elk hunting with your AR - anytime. Good job defending our "babies" - sorry I didn't find ya sooner to lend a hand, heh, heh, heh.
 
Mind you, those 50 Cal uppers from Watson Arms are single shot affairs and the lower serves merely as a base for the stock and the trigger group. There is no "semi-auto" 50 cal AR uppers which will pound the gun to pieces.
 
The AR-15 is only as versatile as the number of uppers someone owns.

An AR 15 set up for varmit hunting would suck at just about everything else.

One with a short barrel set up for "urban warfare" would not be too good for varmitting, either.

So, the people who are saying the AR15 is versatile better own about 5 uppers or else their point is moot!
 
yorec, to say a rifle/cartridge combination is "versatile" means multiple uses. The primary limitation on the AR-15 is its cartridge, which in no way is as versatile as numerous others.

I've owned five or six of them, and have shot quite a few rounds through them. I've always found them to be somewhat awkward as compared to a properly stocked bolt action--which makes target acquisition and accurate fire somewhat slower.

Again, that's just my opinion. For those who like them, I say "Right on!" There are uses for which they are fine critters. I just don't like to limit myself to their uses, mostly because I'm a walking hunter.

Art
 
All this talk about BUTTSTROKING!

That's gotta be as useful as 2000 meter tangent sights. What idiot is gonna come within arms length of someone with a rifle?
 
8200, IMO there is little probability of a total collapse of our society. If such a scenario came to be, you'd never know when somebody might jump out just really up close and personal. (Heck, even an LA Riot situation!) You might even be in the middle of reloading--and a rifle which could be used as a club would be much better than a fragile critter.

Just as example, in close quarters, a Garand with a bayonet is a terrible piece of equipment. Stab, slash, buttstroke or shoot. After all, with that steel buttplate it's a 10-pound hammer! It's a serious piece of crowd-control equipment.

Even in a lesser situation, you might not want the noise of a shot to be heard.

FWIW, Art
 
8200 rpm - Close quarters fighting still happens. Idiots or not - sometimes you still just gotta givem a good smash.

One of my favorite things is to listen to people claim something is obsolete and outdated - and watch as history proves them wrong. :D
 
Art, I agree there is little chance of a complete and PERMANENT breakdown of society. However there is a GREAT possibility of localized and temporary breakdowns. Witness Hurricane Andrew and the widespread armed looting that took place in Florida City, or the LA Riots. Stuff happens, and if you live anywhere near a city you may face the possibility of being in the middle of one of those breakdowns.
 
I have personally used buttstrokes with long guns as force options when less lethal force was required on several occassions.

On one of these occassions, the stock broke off in my hand. The gun was immediately rendered FUBAR, and I had to transition to pistol.
Guess what type of gun it was?? :barf: AR15

ARs are fine for folks that will never fight with them.
 
Mad Dog,

Your post “ARs are fine for folks that will never fight with them”

Is hogwash!!!!!!

I’ve used M-16’s in actual ground combat and I never seen M-16 NOT go bang when the trigger was pulled. My primary MOS was 11 Bravo. I have to admit I only carried a 16 as a rifleman for only a couple days then carried a M-60 for 4 months, then carried the 16 as a Infantry Squad Leader, Hawk Team Leader (Ambush Team) and finally as a Infantry Platoon Sergeant. The M-16 NEVER let me down and I can’t say I ever saw a stock broken for any reason. Make no mistake about it I can find more combat vets that never had a problem with the 16 than had problems.

To make a statement like that I would assume you have had a number of bad experiences in ground combat with a M-16???

Concerning this butt-stoking scenario. Never been there myself because we never let the NVA penetrate our perimeters. One of my best friends was at a fire base named Mary Ann that was over ran and it seems to me he never said anything about butt stroking the enemy but there was plenty of firing. He was with a 75th Ranger Recon unit that was by chance doing a stand down at Mary Ann. He won his 2nd Silver Star during this fight. The book “Zappers in Wire” tells of the fight.

The only time I ever knew of anyone ever using a butt stroke was one of our M-79 men as he rounded a hooch he ran dead into a NVA soldier. He tapped him on the head (actually it was a butt smash to the face) but since the 79 has a rubber recoil pad he backed off a couple steps and popped a 79 round into his chest. The round hadn’t traveled far enough to explode and just stuck there in his chest, which was fortunate for all involved. If he had been carrying a 16 he would of shot him. This NVA was lifted back to the hospital with our WIA’s. It must have been real hairy operation taking that round from his chest.

You may not like the M-16/AR-15 style of rifles but they have won a lot of firefights over the years and will continue into the future.


Turk
173rd Abn. Bdge. (Sep)
Vietnam 68-69
 
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