AR-15 .223 for pronghorn

Thanks all,

.223 is technically allowed in Idaho for big game (even moose :eek:)

The AR-15 in question has a Colt HBAR barrel with a target crown. I'm not an AR expert but I've noticed it is heavier and thicker underneath the forearm than other so-called HBAR's. I bought it with Service Rifle Matches is mind. I haven't competed with it, however I've experimented with it a lot all the way out to 400 yds. Its as accurate as any rifle I have, sub-moa with a few loads. I have a few good 55gr. loads figured out for it, and I have one good 62gr. Sierra hollow-point load that it likes. I currently have a 3 power Colt carry-handle scope. It has an elevation turret that I can dial quickly for exact elevation at 100, 200, 300, 400yds. I've made my own markings on it for those distances with 55 and 62 grain bullets. The dial has markings for higher but I've never established the scope further than 400. There is no quick wind-age adjustment on the scope. When I'm hunting I use laser rangefinders like a chain smoker uses packs of cigarettes.

In my long range shooting with .233 wind has always been a problem. Especially across canyons where the currents are different. I'll be hunting on the Snake River Desert where hopefully the flat open land will have more predictable wind. My experience with my 31-06, the wind doesn't pull the bullet off a deer sized target up to 300-400yds.

As suggested by some of you I could load my 31-06 a little lighter, which is a great idea. My 31-06 is a sporter built off an American 1917 Enfield action ( By the way, its an absolutely beautiful gun with scroll engraving, high figure California walnut, and curly maple end-caps; it was built by my father). It has a barrel with machine British rifling (5 lands left hand) and a British .312 bore diameter. I have the scope on it established for out to 400 yds. with 180gr. and 300 yds. with 200gr. Maybe, a load with 150gr. FMJ would be less invasive and yet provide sufficient energy for pronghorn.
 
Wind is deceptive, for sure. The first time I tried my 500-yard range, I figured I was dealing with a relatively gentle breeze. I held two feet off the center of the target--and hit the vertical centerline. '06, max load, 150-grain SPBT.
 
Like Art Eatman, says .223 on anything but varmints used to be a horrible idea. Isn't now. However, distance and the physics do not change. The issue is remaining energy at your 300 plus yards. Ain't there. A 64 grain bullet only has 423 ft-lbs. of energy remaining at 400.
"....223 is technically allowed in Idaho for big game, even moose..." Is here too. Ontario says "any center fire". Means a .17 Rem is legal. Never mind .223.
 
When we wuz kids growing up in the 50s/early 60s, we (6 school buddies who were lucky enough that our Dads took us hunting) would shoot whitetails with 22 Hornet, 218 Bee, 219 Zipper, 222 Rem and never had a problem knocking them down from 200 yds on in.

Then when I got into High School, I had graduated to a 30-06 and another buddy got a 243. I never had a problem knocking them down, but my Buddy hunted in the brush county of South Texas and shot a brush buck 5 times with his 243 from 200 on out to 250 yds. before it went down. His bullet placement was not the greatest. Shots hit at the shoulder starting out and went to the hind quarters with the other in between.

Lesson: don't matter what you are shooting as long as you hit where you aim and use the right bullet.....within reason.

Now days it is hard to find small caliber bullets that are not designed for varmint shooting.
 
"Now days it is hard to find small caliber bullets that are not designed for varmint shooting."

That might be the case at a local gun shop, but there are many more "bigger than varmint" .223 bullets available now than ever in the past.
 
69 grain hpbt Matchking , 65 grain sbt Gameking ,77 and 80 grain HPBT Matchking , Berger in 70 ,75 , 80 and 90 grain VLD target ( all of which work fine on hogs) and bt 73 and 82 grain longrange. 64 grain Nosler Bonded ( I've had extremely good results on hogs with these) 60 grain Nosler partition ( the old reliable) I'm not big on Hornaday's AMax for larger game but 75 and 80 grain Amax's..........Barnes.........the TSX in both 62 and 70 grain has worked exceptionally well for me personally......

These are without even going into the smaller manufacturers , a lot more slug selection at the .224 level than there used to be.
 
I will stay out of the .223 argument,other than to say it will require some self discipline.
Can you let a 325 yd pronghorn walk away,or stalk closer?
Many of my pronghorn have been inside 200 yds.I'm sure a .223 would work.
I have seen the heart and vitality of wounded antelope.Trust me on this,you do not want to.(And,FWIW,47 years ago a wounded antelope got away from me.I remember.That was the last one)

A problem with pronghorn is that they are easy to see,and hard to not shoot at.

I understand splattering way too much edible meat .I used to use a 7mm Rem Mag.I switched to a .257 AI. Much better.

But I will tell you this.The last deer I took,I used a 30-338.(.338 Win necked down)
The deer just dropped vertically in his tracks at about 250 yds.
I hit him with a 200 grain Accu-Bond,which is a fairly tough bullet. MV about 2900.It was a through the ribs boiler room shot,a touch high,but below spine.
Very little meat loss.My .257 would have been worse.

I do not know all the .31 bullets available,but I suspect if you find something over 180 gr constructed to be adequate for elk,etc your meat damage will be minimal.
 
Ok, I agree that all those listed are hunky dory, but when loading for a 1:14 rifle, what are you gonna use?

There used to be 50-55 grain bullets such as the Nosler partition, but they ain't making them any more. Prolly shot 10 to 12 whitetails with the 50 grainers back in the old days and they weren't varmint bullets like they are now.
 
Dufus, For that twist I'd recommend that you try the Sierra 63 gr SMP. Shoots good in my 220 with that twist. I think it's the shortest of the choices and therefore the most likely to work for you. Works pretty good on mid sized pigs. Never tried it on a deer.
 
Ok, I agree that all those listed are hunky dory, but when loading for a 1:14 rifle, what are you gonna use?
Click to expand...
A few that I would consider:
Barnes 45 gr TSX
Barnes 50 gr TSX FB
Barnes 50 gr TTSX
Barnes 53 gr TSX FB
Nosler 60 gr Partition (previously mentioned - and what I would try to find first)
 
For Dufus: The post was about the AR.I don't think the AR was ever made in a 1 in 14 twist. It was 1 in 12 in the early days.That changed with 62 gr bullets

One day someone told me he had a Rem XP-100 bolt handgun that would not hit a mattress at 100 yds.I said "Hmmm.....I'd like to look at it"

It had been rechambered from 221 Fireball to .223.Now,221 Fireball DID come with a 1 in 14.The owner was shooting 55 gr white box ammo,and it was keyholing.
I fiddled with a few accuracy details,then loaded up some 52 gr Matchkings.

I'm not a great shot,and I know the scope was not over 4x.I put it on a bag at 200 yds.I fired 10. It cut a "Y" shaped group,all holes connected,about 1 1/4 or 1 3/8 in tall and 5/8 wide.
I gave it back to him with some remaining ammo,the target,and recipe for the load.
But my caution,this progress with bullets and hunting bigger game is not so true if you have a 1 in 14 twist that limits you to varmint weight bullets.
He could shoot flat base 52's,but not 55 boat tails.
Before you invest in copper bullets,realize they are longer than the same weight lead bullet.
It will not help to go to a lighter copper bullet if the bullet is the same length.
 
Last edited:
That flat base 63 gr Sierra is shorter than the 60 gr Partition, the 64 gr Nosler BSB, and the 65 gr Sierra GK, and is the only one of that list to stabilize in my 220.
 
603Country said:
That flat base 63 gr Sierra is shorter than the 60 gr Partition, the 64 gr Nosler BSB, and the 65 gr Sierra GK, and is the only one of that list to stabilize in my 220.
Click to expand...
My results are the same as 603Country with the 63gr Semi-pointed Sierra. My .22-250 pretty much keyholed other heavy bullets but the 63gr was very accurate. I've shot several deer with this bullet out of a .223 but was not impressed even though venison ended up on the table.

FWIW
 
I have a 1:14 upper for my AR. It's a dedicated varmint/prairie dog barrel. I'd use my original 1:10 upper for any deer hunting, with heavier bullets.

If all I had was a 1:14 rifle in .223, I would not consider it for deer hunting. There are way too many inexpensive alternatives.
 
The post was about the AR.
Click to expand...

The post was about using 0.224" bullets on pronghorn. I gave my experiences with that diameter bullet. So, I don't believe that I hijacked the OP.

Dufus, For that twist I'd recommend that you try the Sierra 63 gr SMP. Shoots good in my 220 with that twist
Click to expand...

Only difference is that your 220 will shoot the bullet 400 fps faster than the 222 can do. Makes a hell of a difference when stabilizing a marginal bullet. So, the 63 gr is out of the question.

All in all, I settled on a Cutting Edge Bullet that I can get avg of 3508 fps with an SD of 8 and it is supper accurate.

If I was in the OPs position, then make sure that his rifle can stabilize no less than 60 gr bullets. I would try the partition, but they are not known for accuracy, and they shouldn't because they are a hunting bullet not a varmint or target bullet.

There are also some damn good bonded bullets available as well that would peak my interests for his caliber.
 
I've hunted with a .223 for many years and killed several deer and hogs. It is on the light side but if you keep your shots accurate and under 150 yds I feel comfortable the .223 will do a good job. I shoot Winchester 64gr PP exclusively for everything from coyotes to deer.
A lot of the argument comes from shot placement and that is true because I've seen deer lost due to poor shot placement from buckshot to 3006's and the 223 is no exception. The down side is there is usually no blood trail with all smaller caliber bullets but the trade off is less meat damage.
 
Do your job and shoot with discipline. Make sure that you have a good cold bore zero with your chosen bullet. There are a number of appropriate bullets out there now.
 
Dufus, the 63 gr Sierra is shorter than the 60 gr Partition, at .755 inches. Per the JBM site, stability is marginal in a 223 with a 1 in 14 twist at 3000 fps, but it also shows the bullet as marginal in my 220. But it shoots great in my 220. Right or wrong, that is a bullet I'd try in a 223 with a slow twist. That said, in a short barrel AR, the OP probably can't get to 3000 fps.

If the OP doesn't want to try the 63 gr SMP, I'll suggest the 55 gr Sierra GK. I've got that one loaded for pig blasting with my 220, but haven't found a pig yet when I had that rifle, so the test phase hasn't happened yet.

If I had a slow twist 223, I'd get another barrel in a faster twist. If a fellow is going to hunt game with a 223, he should have a twist that'll stabilize the 60 gr Partition or the Nosler 64 gr BSB. If I ever rebarrel my 220 Swift again, I'll go for a faster twist.
 
My old (early 80's) slow twist 110E Savage shoots 64gr Winchester PP very well. I have some pretty old boxes of that stuff.
 
I shot the deer and it just stood there for 10 seconds, then fell over
Click to expand...

^^^ That. That right there is why I quit using it on big game. If it was all I had then a-hunting I would go, but there are better choices.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top