Anyone worry about what cops might think....
- Thread starter Doug.38PR
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Optical Serenity
New member
I don't know any cops who care about something so trivial. As has been said before, most of us are very pro-2nd amendment, and we'll chat about our guns.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
I know that of an informal study done by a well known tactical trainer dealing with police stops.
Basically, an officer stops a car, in the car they find a shotgun or an AR stored in a manner which is a minor violation of the law. Dealing with it is discretionary. About 4 % arrested the guy with the shotgun while 75% chose to arrest the guy with the AR.
These were gun knowledgeable officers and basically gun friendly, according the training officer who did the study.
So in an ambiguous situation, looking a little extreme may not serve you well.
Basically, an officer stops a car, in the car they find a shotgun or an AR stored in a manner which is a minor violation of the law. Dealing with it is discretionary. About 4 % arrested the guy with the shotgun while 75% chose to arrest the guy with the AR.
These were gun knowledgeable officers and basically gun friendly, according the training officer who did the study.
So in an ambiguous situation, looking a little extreme may not serve you well.
Gunfighter45cal
Inactive
Since I routinely carried at least three guns on on patrol, I wouldn't have thought it too odd. Also, I never arrested a person who was carrying a weapon(on their person or in the vehicle) that wasn't either a convicted felon or committing another crime. My career spanned from '84-'03.
Ben Swenson
New member
I've been pulled over while carrying two guns.
The officers in question were more upset about the hammer being back on my 1911 than the fact that I had a Kel-tec too.
The officers in question were more upset about the hammer being back on my 1911 than the fact that I had a Kel-tec too.
riverrat66
New member
In New York "concealed carry" means just that, concealed on your person not in your glove compartment or between your seats. If you have a "possession only" permit the handgun must be locked in a box or container separate from the ammo while traveling to and from the range.
It is illegal to carry a loaded shotgun in your trunk for any reason.
Automatic disclosure is not required in New York. I've been pulled over for speeding while carrying two firearms and the officer never knew I was carrying.
It is illegal to carry a loaded shotgun in your trunk for any reason.
Automatic disclosure is not required in New York. I've been pulled over for speeding while carrying two firearms and the officer never knew I was carrying.
TexiCali Slim
New member
Im sure if you disclosed the information to the cop he wouldn't mind, it's been my experince that as long as you don't try to "pull one over on cops" about anything they're usually pretty cool from then on. Plus if your gonna tell him you have 3 guns in the car why would he suspect you weren't going to tell him about any others. Ya know?
-Thanx
-Thanx
I'm not a cop, nor a lawyer. But I'm currious why you think you need so many guns on you. Honestly, I support people's right to carry a gun, and if I was on a jury, and a guy claiming self-defense was carrying three guns, I'd expect to hear why he had so many. If there wasn't a good reason, I'd have to wonder whether he was reacting reasonably to threats in general, and then I give a second thought to whether his reaction to shoot a specific threat was reasonable.
Three guns (civilian with three hand guns, not hunter with a .22 plinking pistol, bigger hunting revolver and rifle; and not cop with his sidearm, backup and long gun) makes me wonder whether you are 1) itching for a fight, or 2) overreacting to precieved threats.
Therefore, considering I'd expect cops to be more suspicious than me, I would worry about them giving you a second look. It's just too different from what everyone else does.
From a tactical standpoint, if you are in a situation where you need three revolvers and more than 12 shots, you not going to shoot your way out of it. Think about focus on getting better at talking your way out of trouble or driving/running your way out of trouble.
Three guns (civilian with three hand guns, not hunter with a .22 plinking pistol, bigger hunting revolver and rifle; and not cop with his sidearm, backup and long gun) makes me wonder whether you are 1) itching for a fight, or 2) overreacting to precieved threats.
Therefore, considering I'd expect cops to be more suspicious than me, I would worry about them giving you a second look. It's just too different from what everyone else does.
From a tactical standpoint, if you are in a situation where you need three revolvers and more than 12 shots, you not going to shoot your way out of it. Think about focus on getting better at talking your way out of trouble or driving/running your way out of trouble.
Edward429451
Moderator
I had 3 guns taken off of me
Once I was dropping a couple buddies off on the way back from the range and went in to show him (his wife) a little .25 that I had that he thought she might like (to buy). Well the first thing she did with it was to point it at my buddy who immediately (verbally) jumped down her throat for doing so. and the (shouting match) battle was on. The neighbors called the Law and they showed up. Eventually they got around to asking if anyone had weapons on them. I stood up and said yeah, I'm wearing 2 45's under my vest and a 25 in my back pocket. (I took the 25 back as soon as the shouting started). He unholstered my full size GVMT mdl and PO hi cap conversion and just clacks them together in one of his hands as he starts walking towards the door...I reactivly yelled at the cop and said "HEY!" and he turned to look at me and I said "Take it easy on those, I've got quite a bit of money tied up in them" He rolled his eyes and transferred one to each hand. After he ran the numbers he came back in and said so why do you have so many guns on you? Eh, just coming home from the range...
Luckily I was on private property and not standing out on the sidewalk.
Weird situation. I would've yelled at her too and would've also yelled at him (if it were my wife). Nobody yells at my wife, that my job, and while I generally don't worry about minor scratches on my guns I still don't let people abuse them. Even cops.
(Keep a box or two of ammo in the vehicle...I'm on my way to/from the range, I forgot to take my ammo out of the car from the trip to the range, etc.. That's believable to any cop I think.)
Once I was dropping a couple buddies off on the way back from the range and went in to show him (his wife) a little .25 that I had that he thought she might like (to buy). Well the first thing she did with it was to point it at my buddy who immediately (verbally) jumped down her throat for doing so. and the (shouting match) battle was on. The neighbors called the Law and they showed up. Eventually they got around to asking if anyone had weapons on them. I stood up and said yeah, I'm wearing 2 45's under my vest and a 25 in my back pocket. (I took the 25 back as soon as the shouting started). He unholstered my full size GVMT mdl and PO hi cap conversion and just clacks them together in one of his hands as he starts walking towards the door...I reactivly yelled at the cop and said "HEY!" and he turned to look at me and I said "Take it easy on those, I've got quite a bit of money tied up in them" He rolled his eyes and transferred one to each hand. After he ran the numbers he came back in and said so why do you have so many guns on you? Eh, just coming home from the range...
Luckily I was on private property and not standing out on the sidewalk.
Weird situation. I would've yelled at her too and would've also yelled at him (if it were my wife). Nobody yells at my wife, that my job, and while I generally don't worry about minor scratches on my guns I still don't let people abuse them. Even cops.
(Keep a box or two of ammo in the vehicle...I'm on my way to/from the range, I forgot to take my ammo out of the car from the trip to the range, etc.. That's believable to any cop I think.)
riverrat66
New member
Not to get off topic but are you joking? I suggested that on another thread and was almost "mugged", if you will and was told "I don't run from anybody" and that I must be a real "chickensh*t! I wonder how many guns he carried?
I got "Really" lucky in Reno, NV. once back in 1989..! Litterally had just arrived in town after having driven cross country from N.E. Tenn. w/ 21 assorted firearms (A few Long - AR 15, AR 180, M1A, & a Riot Gun, but mostly handguns - my collection @ the time..) all this simply covered with lots of personal belongings and sort of scattered throughout the car; most were in cases, & non were able to be seen w/ out shifting other stuff around! (Yes, I know what you're thinking... I broke the law in a State or 2 along the way just by driving through.. Sometimes you just gotta do what'cha gotta do & all that..!)
Non were loaded & I was carrying NO ammo for any - Except for 1, always loaded Colt Commander that was set in condition 1. All this stuff was packed into my '79 Celica Liftback...
Anyway, just as the sun was setting, I stopped and grabbed a Soda at a local corner store. When I departed the store, an actually quite similar to mine, (beat up, rusty, etc..) late '70's Toyota pulled in "Very" close behind me (it had in it what looked like 2 teenage occupants..). Shortly after pulling in behind me, they each folded down a sun-visor & to my intense instant Pucker & Chagrin, the "Red & Blues" started flashing.
I was pulled over because "I didn't immediately turn on my headlights despite the fact it was nearly dark, & they thought perhaps I had been drinking". (I say it was actually because I had Tenn. Tags... whatever..)
I was asked to step out of the vehicle by 2 absurdly young "grungie" looking (quite a cover I assure you..), pistol & badge carrying plain clothes cops. After I passed a basic sobriety test, attention turned to my car...! They looked through the windows and could see nothing except an absolutely "Jam-packed" bunch of stuff. I think just the amount of stuff in there alone, made them really not want to start digging through there..
Finally, the moment arrived that they asked if there where any "Drugs or firearms" in the vehicle...
I responded to the question in a manner something like - Well, No Drugs Ever, & 21 non Fully Automatic weapons; it's just what popped out of my mouth because I didn't know how else to respond to them without them completely Freaking out and didn't want to get caught in a lie just in case..!! They apparently just really got a kick out of my answer, and said something like - Well Sir (While Chuckling..), we do happen to specialize in Drug Busts & are glad you don't have any or approve of Drugs, and as long as there's no Machine Guns or Bazooka's in there to just "Have a nice night and welcome to Reno, Nevada! Then they just hopped in their Lil' Toyota & drove away...
I waited a few minutes to get my heart back where it belonged (and probably should have checked my drawers too..!) Once I had re-gathered my wits, I drove the last couple of miles to my final destination & immediately unpacked the car..!
Anyway, via this extra long answer to the initial question; sometimes LEO's just plain don't think too much; most times thats bad, but this particular time it was great.. "Thank goodness for me on that day..!"
(erh)
Non were loaded & I was carrying NO ammo for any - Except for 1, always loaded Colt Commander that was set in condition 1. All this stuff was packed into my '79 Celica Liftback...
Anyway, just as the sun was setting, I stopped and grabbed a Soda at a local corner store. When I departed the store, an actually quite similar to mine, (beat up, rusty, etc..) late '70's Toyota pulled in "Very" close behind me (it had in it what looked like 2 teenage occupants..). Shortly after pulling in behind me, they each folded down a sun-visor & to my intense instant Pucker & Chagrin, the "Red & Blues" started flashing.
I was pulled over because "I didn't immediately turn on my headlights despite the fact it was nearly dark, & they thought perhaps I had been drinking". (I say it was actually because I had Tenn. Tags... whatever..)
I was asked to step out of the vehicle by 2 absurdly young "grungie" looking (quite a cover I assure you..), pistol & badge carrying plain clothes cops. After I passed a basic sobriety test, attention turned to my car...! They looked through the windows and could see nothing except an absolutely "Jam-packed" bunch of stuff. I think just the amount of stuff in there alone, made them really not want to start digging through there..
Finally, the moment arrived that they asked if there where any "Drugs or firearms" in the vehicle...
I responded to the question in a manner something like - Well, No Drugs Ever, & 21 non Fully Automatic weapons; it's just what popped out of my mouth because I didn't know how else to respond to them without them completely Freaking out and didn't want to get caught in a lie just in case..!! They apparently just really got a kick out of my answer, and said something like - Well Sir (While Chuckling..), we do happen to specialize in Drug Busts & are glad you don't have any or approve of Drugs, and as long as there's no Machine Guns or Bazooka's in there to just "Have a nice night and welcome to Reno, Nevada! Then they just hopped in their Lil' Toyota & drove away...
I waited a few minutes to get my heart back where it belonged (and probably should have checked my drawers too..!) Once I had re-gathered my wits, I drove the last couple of miles to my final destination & immediately unpacked the car..!
Anyway, via this extra long answer to the initial question; sometimes LEO's just plain don't think too much; most times thats bad, but this particular time it was great.. "Thank goodness for me on that day..!"
(erh)
Re: Page 1.
Mannlicker, I dont care if my opinion matters to you. I've read some of your posts, and it dosent seem like anyones opinion but your own matters. :barf:
On another note.
Its probably not a smart idea to not care whats in the mind of someone who has the authority to detain you.
Mannlicker, I dont care if my opinion matters to you. I've read some of your posts, and it dosent seem like anyones opinion but your own matters. :barf:
On another note.
Its probably not a smart idea to not care whats in the mind of someone who has the authority to detain you.
Capt. Charlie
Moderator Emeritus
I foresee yet another thread gone up in flames due to a lack of civility. Let's try to keep that from happening, OK folks?
shooter429
Moderator
Define "worry"
First and foremost, if you are a good guy, don't sweat it. Be calm, collected and honest, but don't start boot-licking. In this state, the loaded handgun should be concealed on the person who holds the permit (the driver). If you have long guns, for goodness sake, keep them in an opaque container in the trunk or behind the seat and actions open, with NO mags/ammo inserted!! This is very important! I suggest you keep your DL, INS, Reg. and permit in one pocket in a visor above and in front of you so that the officer sees your hands as he approaches the vehicle at all times and knows what you are reaching for. Avoid furtive movements that might make the officer suspicous-like reaching under the seat or grabbing for the glove-box etc. For God's sake, do not pull the gun out and set it on the seat to show the officer while saying, "I gotta permit for this." Unless there is a reason to remove the gun from it's hiding spot, IMHO, it is better not to break it out or tell him about it. If you are a good guy with propper paper, I would not care.
Now, if you need to get out of the car (as requested by the LEO) for example, to look at your plate and have your gun on a hip holster, present both licences to the officer and keep your hands on the wheel until you are told to do otherwise. The keys to dealing with cops or john q citizen for that matter, in my experience, are stay calm, be courteous, listen, and do what you are asked to do/not do.
Just my 02
If you are a bad guy, take a long time to stop and then leave the car running while pretending not to hear the LEO and ignore anything the cop says, and immediatly start reaching under you seat and squirming around to hide the pipe then reach for the glove box, whip the gun out, and lay it on the seat next to you. Then when the cops buddies have arrived to back em up, you wave the gun aimlessly in the air and yell "this will go through your Second Chance like a hot knife through butter! It is usually good if you have some tools like screwdrivers and duct tape on the dash and a broken window always helps the situation. Oh and a few more little nuggets, Cops never got suspicious of anyone using profanity, refusing to respond to verbal commands etc.
I hope this helps
Shooter429
First and foremost, if you are a good guy, don't sweat it. Be calm, collected and honest, but don't start boot-licking. In this state, the loaded handgun should be concealed on the person who holds the permit (the driver). If you have long guns, for goodness sake, keep them in an opaque container in the trunk or behind the seat and actions open, with NO mags/ammo inserted!! This is very important! I suggest you keep your DL, INS, Reg. and permit in one pocket in a visor above and in front of you so that the officer sees your hands as he approaches the vehicle at all times and knows what you are reaching for. Avoid furtive movements that might make the officer suspicous-like reaching under the seat or grabbing for the glove-box etc. For God's sake, do not pull the gun out and set it on the seat to show the officer while saying, "I gotta permit for this." Unless there is a reason to remove the gun from it's hiding spot, IMHO, it is better not to break it out or tell him about it. If you are a good guy with propper paper, I would not care.
Now, if you need to get out of the car (as requested by the LEO) for example, to look at your plate and have your gun on a hip holster, present both licences to the officer and keep your hands on the wheel until you are told to do otherwise. The keys to dealing with cops or john q citizen for that matter, in my experience, are stay calm, be courteous, listen, and do what you are asked to do/not do.
Just my 02
If you are a bad guy, take a long time to stop and then leave the car running while pretending not to hear the LEO and ignore anything the cop says, and immediatly start reaching under you seat and squirming around to hide the pipe then reach for the glove box, whip the gun out, and lay it on the seat next to you. Then when the cops buddies have arrived to back em up, you wave the gun aimlessly in the air and yell "this will go through your Second Chance like a hot knife through butter! It is usually good if you have some tools like screwdrivers and duct tape on the dash and a broken window always helps the situation. Oh and a few more little nuggets, Cops never got suspicious of anyone using profanity, refusing to respond to verbal commands etc.
I hope this helps
Shooter429
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
There is an interesting trend is such debates.
There is the theoretical or absolutist view vs. the pragmatic.
The former is usually wrapped in some layperson's view of a Constitutional principle or view of a state law. If their reading is such that the behavior is permittable under those, then they will engage in that behavior. The principle is inviolate and some seem to relish the chance to challenge an officer. Perhaps they see themselves as the Rosa Parks of the gun rights world or at least claim to be such on the Internet. It might be fun to carry guns (or claim to carry guns) in a way that might spark a confrontation. It adds a frisson of excitement to carry - maybe the cop will think you are tough and you can put him or her down with your well planned RKBA speech.
Another view is pragmatic. There may well be such principles, but police and courts are made of people, and they don't always act in absolute principles in the way you think they should.
The officer may perceive you as extreme and that can color his or her use of discretion in the manner at hand. You might get the ticket, you might have avoided. You might get put on the concrete in cuffs. You might get a gun in your ear. If you decide to keep arguing as a matter of principle, you may be seen as resisting and no logical chatter will mean crap - you could get shot.
I know from the literature and talking to officers that while some folks may not take extreme firearms carry as anything but a 2nd Amendment celebration, other might not.
Thus, I care not to present myself as extreme. My firearms choices are clearly pragmatic. A main gun and a bug are fine. A polite attitude and informing the officer of the guns (as TX requires) is fine and dandy. While I might carry my shotgun and AR in the car for terrorists and zombies, I usually don't. If I do, they are safely stowed.
I've been stopped in cars with the full range ninja gear. Since I am so respectful looking I gave the officer my CHL. He said - going to the range? Yep!
If I started pulling guns out the seats of the car, that's getting a touch freaky. Why carry in such a manner?
There is the theoretical or absolutist view vs. the pragmatic.
The former is usually wrapped in some layperson's view of a Constitutional principle or view of a state law. If their reading is such that the behavior is permittable under those, then they will engage in that behavior. The principle is inviolate and some seem to relish the chance to challenge an officer. Perhaps they see themselves as the Rosa Parks of the gun rights world or at least claim to be such on the Internet. It might be fun to carry guns (or claim to carry guns) in a way that might spark a confrontation. It adds a frisson of excitement to carry - maybe the cop will think you are tough and you can put him or her down with your well planned RKBA speech.
Another view is pragmatic. There may well be such principles, but police and courts are made of people, and they don't always act in absolute principles in the way you think they should.
The officer may perceive you as extreme and that can color his or her use of discretion in the manner at hand. You might get the ticket, you might have avoided. You might get put on the concrete in cuffs. You might get a gun in your ear. If you decide to keep arguing as a matter of principle, you may be seen as resisting and no logical chatter will mean crap - you could get shot.
I know from the literature and talking to officers that while some folks may not take extreme firearms carry as anything but a 2nd Amendment celebration, other might not.
Thus, I care not to present myself as extreme. My firearms choices are clearly pragmatic. A main gun and a bug are fine. A polite attitude and informing the officer of the guns (as TX requires) is fine and dandy. While I might carry my shotgun and AR in the car for terrorists and zombies, I usually don't. If I do, they are safely stowed.
I've been stopped in cars with the full range ninja gear. Since I am so respectful looking I gave the officer my CHL. He said - going to the range? Yep!
If I started pulling guns out the seats of the car, that's getting a touch freaky. Why carry in such a manner?
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