Anyone of my age remember the 218 bee

Since the Bee has a much smaller case, and is designed to operate a lower pressures, I don't find any X gr powder = XXXXfps comparison between it and the .223 to be valid.

Apples to apples, or dust to dust, compare things that aren't the same, and its a bust! :D
 
What are you shooting that requires a 55 grain bullet going 3200 fps over a 40 grain bullet going 2500 fps? My point was you can shoot twice as many .218 Bee's as you can .223 because it uses half as much powder and about 25% less lead.
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I'm pretty sure you can load .223 ammo with 40 grain bullets and 5 grains of Trail Boss if you don't need 55 grain bullets going 3200 fps.
I sometimes load no powder at all in primed .22 Hornet cases and seat a .22 caliber air rifle pellet in the neck for super quiet back yard plinking fun, actually quieter than most air rifles, and all it costs is a primer and a pellet.

As for the first part of the question, it's not always about killing power but the ability to hit targets that are far, far away. Faster and heavier bullets shoot flatter and don't get blown sideways by crosswinds so badly.
 
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As a younger guy, (under 30) these old varmint rounds always interested me. The Bee, Hornet, K-Hornet....etc. At my bachelor part a couple of months ago, a buddy brought out his family's Model 65 in .218 Bee, as a group we maybe shot a box through it. What a sweet old rifle! I have an appreciate for these cartridges, but don't have one yet. Maybe I need to work harder to find an older rimmed varmint rifle!
 
My grand dad fed his family with his 218 Bee in the late 1930's early 1940's. He killed everything from turkey to deer with that rifle.
 
In 1960, as a 12 year old, I bought a sweet .218 Bee for $65.00. It was built on a Winchester low wall frame by a NY gunsmith, John Dewy. It had 2 1/2X C&P Weaver scope, which I replaced with a 6X Lyman scope. It also came with a tool box of ammo and reloading supplies, included.
Two boxes of factory loads (100 rounds).
A Lyman 310 hand loader and dies.
1,000 cases.
1,000 primers.
One pound of 4227 powder.
And several hundred 45 grain SP bullets.

I learned to reload with that rifle!

Fifteen years later, while in the service I needed money and sold that rifle. The sale still haunts me.
 
I found a 218 bee , in a Winchester 43 in the late 80s.
It was a great varmint gun, using it on coyotes on my parents property.
Low report didn't bother the neighbors, but it flattened yotes.
I ended up selling it to a neighbor, who still has it.
Fun gun.
 
Jbotto,

Wow! A bachelor party with no strippers and hopefully no booze but bring out a nice rifle for some judicious trigger time shared with the guests?

(Booze after the trigger time accepted)

That’s impressive!

Three44s
 
A Winchester Model 43 Bee kind of floated around town some years ago. I don't know who has it now.
Pro, it was equipped with a good old steel Weaver scope, 6X, I think.
Con, it was customized with about a 4 lpi "checkering" job scored into grip and foreend.
 
The Bee

The mild .22 centerfires,and the 25-20 to an extent, were popular as fall turkey rifles in PA when I was a kid. They were not uncommon, and they were used on groundhogs as well.

When I finally got some spending money, I went on the hunt for a .22 Hornet, but would have settled for a Bee. As it ended up, I never did own either. An acquaintance up in PA still has two M43's, one of them is a Bee, I think the other may be a Hornet, both very clean.
 
As a boy raised in the country. Most farm folks weren't into varmint bushwhacking.

On the other-hand when their was a opportunity to dispatch hole diggers. Those varmints were typically dispatched from a field tractor with a 22 lr spring and summer or a 12 ga. in the Fall.

I do recall one of our neighbors had lever Win's in 218 Bee and a 25-20 both in like new condition and without a doubt grabbed my attention when a guest. As a small gun cabinet was part of their kitchen furniture. As I recalled one or the other were typically grabbed from the cabinet to eliminate night time problem makers in the yard bothering their dog/s. Not having electricity in those days. Only kerosene lighting back then. There was a angst or creepy feeling (for me there was) leaving a warm and safe interior to a exterior not knowing just what was bothering the dogs. Although how highly excited the dogs were gave us some idea what someone might encounter in dim light. Bear wolf/s skunk weasel fox were the typical trespassers. My Father always toted his double barrel 12 on such night time circumstances. Mom held his lamp. Left barrel> 00 Buck. Right barrel > ball slug. So even a lowly weasel trying to poach a chicken got more lead thrown his way then it expected. As things turned out. Following morning. The chickens ate what little of him remaining instead of he eating one of them the night before.

Anyway staying on point. Seen a couple 218s in my time here & there but never had the desire to want one.
 
My 218 is also built on a Martini action with a heavy Douglas barrel. It is a very fun rifle to shoot and any ground squirrel inside 200 yards is in real trouble.
 
I'm happy to say I own a M-43 and a M-65 Winnie in .218 Bee, they are very clean and well preserved. They belonged to my dad from his days on an Illinois farm waaaayyyy back, he enjoyed his varmint hunting for crow, hawk, fox, and groundhog. Need to get them out for some range time.
 
Most farm folks weren't into varmint bushwhacking.
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It's not bushwhacking! It's a fair fight! Just because the varmints want to stand 100 yds off and yell at you doesn't mean a thing!:D
 
I'm not that old (33) and remember the 218Bee well. My grandfather had a love affair with that round. He also introduced me to reloading with that cartridge. I remember he would tell me that was his gator round. Seen him take a couple gators with it out of a Contender.
 
I bought my Winchester Model 43 in 218 Bee used in 1963, paid $ 40.00 for it and the LGS threw in 2 boxes of shells. It was my first Center Fire Rifle and Varmint Rifle all rolled up into one, It had an Old El Paso Weaver K-6 or K-8 mounter on it. But now wears an Old Denver Redfield 6 X 18. Still shoots as well as it ever did, really likes Hornady 35gr V-Max bullets. I got started reloading for it from the get go all most, long story on that tho. I have shot 1000`s of rounds and killed a Boxcar load of about any type of varmints you can think of with this rifle. And I know I have at least carried my 218 Bee a 100 miles or more. I have a bunch of great stories and a lot of good times made caring this little rifle. She is to me like a Trusted Old Friend, probably my favorite rifle.
ken
 
RCBS 58022 die - .32-20 win to .218bee - fyi. I never knew why the Bee never caught on it's a great shooter. Back in the 50s and 60s almost every working man had a Hornet for deer and turkey. Availability and price was probably the reason. I shot the Bee because that's what was available to me at the time. I've killed a lot of deer and turkey with that gun. I recently bought a savage hornet. Cute lil' gun and a blast to reload and shoot inside a .5 at 100. That's about what the Bee did. I glad to see that at least one of the little cartridges made it to the 21st. Century.
 
The Black spot - I'm not sure what an improved bee is. I do think you can spin the bolt face out on a mod m25 savage 22 hornet to fit a 218. The mags will have to be milled out but you have to probably rework the mags to get your hand-loaded hornets to work well anyway. I had to. The barrel wouldn't be much of a problem.
 
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