Anyone know how/if the Sig P365 is drop safe?

TunnelRat said:
If you read the posts back to when the issue with the P320 came out, I think the idea that I give SIG a pass would be pretty humorous, especially to our friend David.

But to the point, what would convince you exactly?

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Speaking generically, not specifically to you but it does seem to me that Sig gets a pass where other brands..like Glock, generate pages and pages of vitriol..IMHO, of course.

No need to convince me..I'm just some old fart who likes to make holes in paper targets and melons who is very comfy with what he owns and carries..and finds it interesting and sometimes instructive to wander around this and a few other, gun forums..

Guns, like some bicycle clothes(been in bike biz for decades, Rapha), and even phones..really brings out the naysayers..As I have mentioned..Often directed at the brand that was one of the 'first' in some category...
 
USNRet93 said:
Speaking generically, not specifically to you but it does seem to me that Sig gets a pass where other brands..like Glock, generate pages and pages of vitriol..IMHO, of course.

No need to convince me..I'm just some old fart who likes to make holes in paper targets and melons who is very comfy with what he owns and carries..and finds it interesting and sometimes instructive to wander around this and a few other, gun forums..

Guns, like some bicycle clothes(been in bike biz for decades, Rapha), and even phones..really brings out the naysayers..As I have mentioned..Often directed at the brand that was one of the 'first' in some category...
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I just don't agree. When this whole P320 drop issue happened we had multiple threads with many pages each, and even on this thread there are a number of people pointing out SIG's issues. YouTube and social media were awash in P320 memes, and they still show up on occasion. People continue to bring it up even on SIG's own Facebook page. Are there people that give them a pass? Sure, but I don't think that's any more true than Glock with the Gen 4 issues. There are always fanboys.

When I said convince I didn't mean convince you about my treatment of SIG, I meant what do you personally need to see to convince you at this point that the P365 is drop safe? There is a camp now that really doesn't trust SIG. I don't blame them for this, but they pretty regularly bring doubt into conversations where I'm not sure any amount of convincing would really change their minds.

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TunnelRat said:
I just don't agree. When this whole P320 drop issue happened we had multiple threads with many pages each, and even on this thread there are a number of people pointing out SIG's issues. YouTube and social media were awash in P320 memes, and they still show up on occasion. People continue to bring it up even on SIG's own Facebook page. Are there people that give them a pass? Sure, but I don't think that's any more true than Glock with the Gen 4 issues. There are always fanboys.

When I said convince I didn't mean convince you about my treatment of SIG, I meant what do you personally need to see to convince you at this point that the P365 is drop safe? There is a camp now that really doesn't trust SIG. I don't blame them for this, but they pretty regularly bring doubt into conversations where I'm not sure any amount of convincing would really change their minds.

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Just referring to the ‘why I hate Glock’ thread. Haven’t been here that long but haven’t seen any ‘why I hate Sig’ threads.

I know what you meant about ‘convince’...kinda like a word, can’t be unsaid, the SIG issues are well documented. I think that a company with Sigs size, history and rep., having a couple of gun issues back to back is somewhat perplexing.

BUT I’m not a fan of Sig for the above but also, just don’t really like them. P320 and P365, I prefer the Glock17 and Glock 42/43...not ‘sure’ what you get for the extra $. I’ll mention, I’m firmly in the ‘tool not trophy’ camp. Reliability, shoot ability and conceal ability are my number one drivers(except-17 of course)...

Sig made their bed, now gotta sleep in it. Yes, they have gone to great pains to fix these 2 gun’s issues but it was their making, not a bunch of internet ninjas that were making stuff up.
 
I'm not a Glock fan, my wife is. I can't get use to the grip angle. She's a dead aim with them. As to Sig, I'm very aware of all the 320/365 fallout. Thanks to a non-Sig forum, I became acquainted with the 365. I picked up a late model, and it's now a favorite. My wife even bought one.
 
Well it's not a why I hate Glock thread, though I get your point. I think it's also fair to say that people are more cognisant of threads about pistols we use than not. For instance, you like and use Glocks and therefore a thread about the aspects of Glocks people don't like is a bit more obvious to you personally. As someone that has been here a while, though not as long as some, SIG certainly has gotten its ribbing too. And I say this as someone that carries a Glock.

As far as back to back issues, no doubt. Course Glock had issues with the Gen 4, then some issues with the G42, some early Gen 5s that went to some law enforcement departments had issues too. SIG is certainly an offender, maybe the worst offender, but no one seems squeaky clean these days.

As far as the "tools not trophies" camp, while the P series pistols are still quite expensive, they are also a bit more involved to make than say a Glock. SIG's polymer options like the P320 or SP2022 are priced right in line with the competition. P320s can often be found cheaper than Glocks, and SIG sure beat Glock's price per pistol for the MHS competition. The P365 can be had for ~$500 right now and it comes with what are really nice night sights as opposed to Glock's polymer sights. I don't think it's really overpriced.

SIG certainly has to sleep in their bed, and again from what I've seen people generally are remembering the issues. Apologists on both sides, even Glock, will always exist. To me it has less to do with recognizing the difference between a tool and a trophy and more to deal with realizing that regardless of the manufacturer it's an inanimate object with no feelings. Brand loyalty at the expense of ignoring issues, regardless of the brand, serves no one.

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nd SIG sure beat Glock's price per pistol for the MHS competition
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That is an artificial conclusion. Sig made the US government an offer they couldn’t refuse and that Glock chose to not compete with. Pretty sure Sig is losing $ on that deal but undoubtedly will come to break even in the long term with that handgun. Completely finishing the testing protocols for both guns would have helped. Unfortunately some$ changed hands somewhere, the ‘competition’ was prematurely concluded and Sig declared the winner...and then Sig proceeded to fix the newly delivered guns:eek:
 
USNRet93 said:
That is an artificial conclusion. Sig made the US government an offer they couldn’t refuse and that Glock chose to not compete with. Pretty sure Sig is losing $ on that deal but undoubtedly will come to break even in the long term with that handgun. Completely finishing the testing protocols for both guns would have helped. Unfortunately some$ changed hands somewhere, the ‘competition’ was prematurely concluded and Sig declared the winner...and then Sig proceeded to fix the newly delivered guns:eek:
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It's not an artificial conclusion. The bid SIG made was for a lower cost per pistol. That's real, whether Glock chose to compete with it or not (nor does it change anything with the civilian pricing for SIG's polymer lines). As for the conspiracy theories of money changing hands, sure it's possible. Does start to smack of Glock fanboyism a bit though, and rightly calling out fanboyism while engaging in it seems contradictory. And again, I say this as a person with a Glock on his hip and a Glock by his bed.

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TunnelRat said:
It's not an artificial conclusion. The bid SIG made was for a lower cost per pistol. That's real, whether Glock chose to compete with it or not (nor does it change anything with the civilian pricing for SIG's polymer lines). As for the conspiracy theories of money changing hands, sure it's possible. Does start to smack of Glock fanboyism a bit though, and rightly calling out fanboyism while engaging in it seems contradictory. And again, I say this as a person with a Glock on his hip and a Glock by his bed.

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I was executive officer for a USN test squadron(VX-4) and I can assure you, at the civilian level, $ does indeed change hands..The initial F/A-18 was very similar to the SIG 320 in that it had a BUNCH of problems, and we actually gave it a thumb's down(VX-4, operational test and eval, fleet maintainers and pilots), but amazingly, our rec. was noted and the F/A-18 was introduced to the fleet...

BUT the military got a new handgun(whether or not they NEEDED one is up for discussion), it was at a good $ point(better for the Government)..they will be effective and reliable.

Not a fan boy of anything but reliability is one of my 'number 1s'...Many guns are reliable...But shootability, conceal-ability, reliability...not sure adding $ to get another gun would make those 'better'..YMMV and all that. The guns I have work for me..and altho, like most, I get 'gun fever'(right now interested in trying out G43x and G48)...probably stick with what I have.
 
USNRet93 said:
I was executive officer for a USN test squadron(VX-4) and I can assure you, at the civilian level, $ does indeed change hands..The initial F/A-18 was very similar to the SIG 320 in that it had a BUNCH of problems, and we actually gave it a thumb's down(VX-4, operational test and eval, fleet maintainers and pilots), but amazingly, our rec. was noted and the F/A-18 was introduced to the fleet...

BUT the military got a new handgun(whether or not they NEEDED one is up for discussion), it was at a good $ point(better for the Government)..they will be effective and reliable.

Not a fan boy of anything but reliability is one of my 'number 1s'...Many guns are reliable...But shootability, conceal-ability, reliability...not sure adding $ to get another gun would make those 'better'..YMMV and all that. The guns I have work for me..and altho, like most, I get 'gun fever'(right now interested in trying out G43x and G48)...probably stick with what I have.
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I've also been involved in the adoption of new systems for the military. In my experience people often assume it was money when it's just as likely politics, ignorance, or someone's completely different interpretation of results. For the MHS competition the P320 scored as well as or better than the Glock in the categories we saw rated in the report released by the GAO. It did this for notably less money than the bid by Glock. Having owned multiple examples of Glocks and P320s, while I prefer the Glock I think the P320 is both fine and likely a much better fit for the modular goals of this competition (I'll add I think the modularity is far less important than the competition suggests).

Anyway, this is pretty far from the OP's question on the P365. Personally I'm much less worried about the drop safety of the P365 than potential breakages. My point from the beginning of this exchange was simply I do think SIG has been held responsible for their screw ups, and I think the very existence of this thread is proof of that on the civilian side.

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I'm much less worried about the drop safety of the P365 than potential breakages.
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I have over 4000 rounds through mine without a single malfunction. I also dry fire the crap out of it without any snap caps.


Shame on me, huh?
 
someone's completely different interpretation of results.
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Often it is this....

What is important in actual combat in the dust often does not align with what is important in imagined combat from the sofa.
 
You know David it's fun that I just spent a number of posts defending SIG, but like always you find the negative thing I say about them and fixate on it. I can't discount your experience. Yours is not the only experience. My concern is the number of reports seems greater than I would expect. Maybe it's all bs. Maybe it's overblown by the internet, but in the realm of micro pistols the P365 seems to have more reported breakages than the Shield, PPS, 43, etc. Likely some of this is people being hypersensitive about issues with SIG after the social media explosion about the P320, which you and I have been over plenty.

I must say you seem to jump in to defend SIG against what you consider, and maybe rightly so, internet BS and yet I can't remember you doing so nearly as much for other manufacturers. It seems to be a primary purpose of your presence here. This isn't me saying that's a bad thing either, it's me making an observation.

https://youtu.be/RCgX2MsoKi8

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but like always you find the negative thing I say about them and fixate on it.
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I was agreeing with you...but ok. I simply added to your post. You sure you are not just being sensitive?

;)
 
davidsog said:
I was agreeing with you...but ok. I simply added to your post. You sure you are not just being sensitive?



;)
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You agreed with me that the frequency of reports of parts breakages are concerning? Awesome, good to know you share the concern!

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I'm responding with the same frequency as yourself, so we both must. I always enjoy our talks.

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