Evil Monkey
New member
non sense. Prove it.
There's alot of medical literature out there that shows otherwise.
Stop pulling stuff out of your butt.
Any Thoughts On Carrying a 357 SIG For CCW?
- Thread starter GlockedNLoded32
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non sense. Prove it.
There's alot of medical literature out there that shows otherwise.
Stop pulling stuff out of your butt.
carguychris
New member
This is not necessarily true; it's not an apples-to-apples comparison. Many .357Mag loads are tested using a 6"-9" barrel to make them look better in the manufacturer's ballistics charts, whereas .357Sig is pretty much a short-barrel cartridge by definition and is usually loaded with faster-burning powder (see my earlier post). Also refer to CDW4ME's last post.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
That's not true for the 125gr loads, which is the weight that the 357sig was designed to replicate. In fact, the opposite is true. 357sig 125gr rounds loaded to true SAAMI spec are a little faster than 357mag inch for inch. I'm talking real loads, at the SAAMI spec, not the neutered 9mm+ typical of most factory ammo. Loaded to the euro standard of 44,236psi, the Sig is TRULY something to behold.
My handloads, without exceeding book max, approach 1400fps from a 3.5" barrel and exceed 1500 from a 5.3" barrel.
The 357sig was designed to replicate 125gr 357mag loads in a "normal" sized semi-auto handgun. That is something it does VERY well.
@Evil Monkey....What medical literature are you referring to, do you have any examples?
Dr Martin Fackler, a retired Colonel and Former Trauma Surgeon in the US Army medical corps, and the former director of the Wound Ballistics Laboratory for the US Army’s Medical Training Center, has written extensively on wound ballistics, in fact he pretty much pioneered the field. He seems pretty clear on his belief that the .40 and .45 appear to perform substantially better than 9mm.
He seems about as credible and knowledgeable a source as you are ever going to find on the subject.
Dr Martin Fackler, a retired Colonel and Former Trauma Surgeon in the US Army medical corps, and the former director of the Wound Ballistics Laboratory for the US Army’s Medical Training Center, has written extensively on wound ballistics, in fact he pretty much pioneered the field. He seems pretty clear on his belief that the .40 and .45 appear to perform substantially better than 9mm.
He seems about as credible and knowledgeable a source as you are ever going to find on the subject.
Evil Monkey
New member
I don't think that fackler has ever said that.
As far as where I get my info from, I get my info second hand from others who own literature on forensic pathology/wound ballistics/etc and have cited from that said literature. M4carbine.net has a terminal ballistics forum with very good information.
bamaranger
New member
yup
Interesting ctg, w/ fair specs, but hard to find and ususally expensive.
Interesting ctg, w/ fair specs, but hard to find and ususally expensive.
Since all handguns are a compromise especially service class. The 357 sig is good as any. It has pros and cons.
I've also got a 180gr XTP load that clocks 1150fps from a 2" SP101
both loads are from current hodgdon websight velocitys are chronoed from my guns.
It's very disingenuinous to say SAAMI VS SAAMI then try to look at loads loaded to euro standards. If you want to be fair play fair. compair neutered american ammo to neutered american ammo or boutique vs boutique. If you want to play reloads my 4" 357 will launch 125s at 1650fps.
I've also got a 180gr XTP load that clocks 1150fps from a 2" SP101
both loads are from current hodgdon websight velocitys are chronoed from my guns.
357 Sig is a competent round and since you are just learning I must congradulate you on choosing what I see as one of the better choices thats out there... 
Speed Gold Dots and Corbon DPX are my standard carry loads for CCW in my 45 and I suspect they are equally competent in 357 sig. I butcher and smoke my own meats and the rounds I carry have been used in ensuring that the animals suffer as little as possible. The results have been very good and at times amazing..
Some claim that any hollowpoint will do, maybe but consistency in expansion is always suspect with the cheap stuff. I want as many rounds as possible to fully expand with as few failures as possible if I have to pull the trigger in self defense.
Golden Sabers are a favorite of many based on price and performance but in my evaluation they were not as consistent in expanding and weight retention as the Gold Dots and DPX, your milage may vary but it probably wont..
I shoot cheaper stuff at the same weight for general practice with a mag of the good stuff here and there to keep things on the mark....
Speed Gold Dots and Corbon DPX are my standard carry loads for CCW in my 45 and I suspect they are equally competent in 357 sig. I butcher and smoke my own meats and the rounds I carry have been used in ensuring that the animals suffer as little as possible. The results have been very good and at times amazing..
Some claim that any hollowpoint will do, maybe but consistency in expansion is always suspect with the cheap stuff. I want as many rounds as possible to fully expand with as few failures as possible if I have to pull the trigger in self defense.
Golden Sabers are a favorite of many based on price and performance but in my evaluation they were not as consistent in expanding and weight retention as the Gold Dots and DPX, your milage may vary but it probably wont..
I shoot cheaper stuff at the same weight for general practice with a mag of the good stuff here and there to keep things on the mark....
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Since all handguns are a compromise especially service class. The 357 sig is good as any. It has pros and cons.
It's very disingenuinous to say SAAMI VS SAAMI then try to look at loads loaded to euro standards. If you want to be fair play fair. compair neutered american ammo to neutered american ammo or boutique vs boutique. If you want to play reloads my 4" 357 will launch 125s at 1650fps.
I've also got a 180gr XTP load that clocks 1150fps from a 2" SP101
both loads are from current hodgdon websight velocitys are chronoed from my guns.
No, I said SAAMI vs SAAMI the Sig matches or beats the Mag with 125gr loads. Then I said that it's really impressive if you load it to CIP standards This is simply a point of interest, not a comparison to 357mag SAAMI loads.
Most people don't load their own so they're not going to load über-hot rounds. Keeping with SAAMI pressures, the Sig does exactly what it was designed to do, match the legendary 125 gr 357mag... except in a gun that's lighter than most any revolver and holds at least 66% more rounds and as much as 2 1/2 times as many.
peacefulgary
New member
The 357Sig is a fine concealed carry caliber.
If you do your part the round will do its part.
If you do your part the round will do its part.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Couldn't tell you, since they generally make claims for the Mag with 8 or 10" barrels and the Sig is almost always 4. I do know that when I run across load data or chrony info for similar barrel lengths the Sig matches or beats the Mag with 125gr loads.
It's also amusing that people complain about muzzle flash and blast from the Sig... makes me wonder if they've ever seen 357mag from a short barrel.
It's also amusing that people complain about muzzle flash and blast from the Sig... makes me wonder if they've ever seen 357mag from a short barrel.
LOL. Is that in the 357sig fanboi handbook I hear it all the time but everybody I checked that listed barrel lengths were 4" vented for .357mag.
I do know that when I actually chronoed loads from my brothers P226 and My 4" Smith 65 across the same screen the same day that my Mag averaged over 1400fps while his Sig was just over 1300 all top shelf american ammo.
following this logic then 9mm+p is as good as 357sig, 9mm std pressure is as good as 9mm+p, 38+p is as good as std 9mm, std 38 is as good as 38+p and so on heck we might as well just carry a pocket full of 125gr bullets to throw at the badguys.
We can even use the old "would you want to just stand there and let me throw bullets at you?"
100fps may be of little consequence or it might make all the difference.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Ok. Fine. But I'm not an anything "fanboy". Almost all listed data for 357mag is for long barrels, 357sig data is not. Therefore, only shooting those loads over a chrony can tell you.
But just shooting "American ammo" doesn't tell you a thing. You ever try that with off the shelf 10mm versus 40sw? If you did, you'd likely conclude that 10mm is worthless and doesn't even MATCH 40sw, say nothing of beating it.
Since we're reduced to deriding the person rather than the merits of the argument, I shall leave this to those with more stake in the issue than I.
But just shooting "American ammo" doesn't tell you a thing. You ever try that with off the shelf 10mm versus 40sw? If you did, you'd likely conclude that 10mm is worthless and doesn't even MATCH 40sw, say nothing of beating it.
Since we're reduced to deriding the person rather than the merits of the argument, I shall leave this to those with more stake in the issue than I.
I think the "truth" is, most, if not all this bickering over a few fps or mm's in diameter, is silly, and really doesnt matter at all in the real world. Its all just a cross between macho and marketing.
Use what you like and shoot the best with, and can afford to practice all the time with, and you'll be OK. As much as people want to think there is, there are no magic bullets. At least "yet" anyways. I did hear they are coming out with a necked down .380 to .17 with .300Win Mag knockdown power next year though.
Use what you like and shoot the best with, and can afford to practice all the time with, and you'll be OK. As much as people want to think there is, there are no magic bullets. At least "yet" anyways. I did hear they are coming out with a necked down .380 to .17 with .300Win Mag knockdown power next year though.
The chrono results I posted were from a Ruger Speed Six with 2 3/4" barrel and a Glock 32, both using factory ammo.
A 4" barrel "service size" revolver is not as handy for CC as a Glock 32; the Speed Six is more comparable in size, and the power I obtained by factory ammo is more than equal between the mag & Sig.
Despite the bickering of mag vs Sig in 357, the OP has a fine defensive combo.
A 4" barrel "service size" revolver is not as handy for CC as a Glock 32; the Speed Six is more comparable in size, and the power I obtained by factory ammo is more than equal between the mag & Sig.
Despite the bickering of mag vs Sig in 357, the OP has a fine defensive combo.
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