Any Practical Benefits to Rapid fire practice?

My only hunting objective is to have an opportunity to Zap some feral pigs.

Such handgun practice could help stop a Dedicated, wounded Schwein from damaging somebody's delicate pink body?

But my largest handguns are Makarovs.
 
Shooting slow and accurate is fun. Shooting fast and accurate is fun. Not every outing needs to be for training.

To quote Rodney King... "Can't we all, just get along?"
 
Absolutely!

I have made a standard practice out of doing at least one "mag dump" during my range visits. There are many reasons for this and back when I was a young shooter, it was purely for fun or the hypothetical "charging bull" training.
Nowadays, it is a very effective tool for recoil management training and mental preparation. Staying focused on grip, sights, and trigger control through the ENTIRE 1.5 seconds it takes to dump the mag is actually very difficult and can teach you a lot about your shooting.
Admittedly the mag need not be full, but having a full mag can make that which is training into FUN training.
Also, I have been known to train new shooters by forcing them to do a mag dump or two as quickly as possible(I stop them if they aren't hitting paper, but they generally aren't shooting that fast). It can be a great psychological boost for them to know that if they need to they can machine gun the pistol and still be fine. It makes them far more confident and comfortable with the pistol and slow practice is no longer such a nervous endeavor.

So the short answer is "Yes".
 
Learning to shoot fast and accurately is a good skill to have, especially if you are going to compete. While there may be different ways to become a fast, accurate shooter, arguably, starting out with mag dumps can't hurt. You would get used to the way the gun feels under rapid fire; and eventually you might even learn to control it.

I've done my share of mag dumps for kicks and giggles. I don't think it really improved my skill any, though. I mostly practice double taps; sometimes a triple tap (which is arguably useless too)

Anyone else here willing to admit they they have done a mag-dump or two?
 
You cannot learn to do it slowly shooting bullseye.
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Nor do you learn to shoot accurately during rapid fire by going straight from slow controlled single shots to dumping mags as fast as you can pull the trigger. (Not that I think you were advocating that - your comments was just a good jumping off point.) Rapid fire is a skill that is best learned by gradual increases in speed while maintaining control. It doesn't sound like that is what the OP saw.
 
Anyone else here willing to admit they they have done a mag-dump or two?
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I sure have. It was always more fun and just seeing how fast it could be done. That would include rifles and shotguns in addition to hand guns. It's just not something i do very often.
 
I have pistols with 6, 10, and 17 round magazines. I can honestly say I have never "dumped" a full 17 round mag. 40 years ago I would have had to know how fast I could. I also needed to know how fast any vehicle I drove would go. I don't need to know these things anymore.:D I do practice putting multiple hits on more than one target. All shots within a 4-6" circle is what I try to maintain at speed. Even switching from center mass to head on the same target is beneficial. 10 or less rounds is enough to get the job done and identify problems IMO.
 
To me "dumping an entire mag" is silly....its a "pray and spray" mentality. Its not practice ..its just pushing lead downrange..

But drawing - and shooting quickly - against some standard under the stress of a timer - and "tactically accurate" --- is a skill that shooters, that want to practrice defensive shooting need to consider.

I'm not sure I understood the description of their target...but a lot of professional instructors talk about "tactical accuracy" --- and while there is no single standard...a couple of things seem to keep coming up in terms of what the primary target is. Head area - small triangle or rectangle "eyes to bottom of nasal cavity" / a Groin Area - a rectangle accross the belt line and down toward the pelvis between the legs / a Center Chest area - most focus on a rectangle "nipple to nipple and down toward belly button - about 8 1/2" wide and 10 or 11 inches long...

In the Center Chest area ...there is a 3" by 5" area...in some silhouette targets that would be your ideal target --- but if you use the roughly 8 1/2" by 11" rectangle -- aby shot in that rectangle...is Tactically just as accurate as a shot in the 3" X 5" area. Any shot in that rectangle will disable an attacker..spine, main organs...

Bulls Eye shooting...I'd want to be tapping that 3" X 5" area 99% of the time. But if I'm practicing for Defense...that center chest rectangle makes a meaningful target to me. While I shoot some drills that call for Head or Groin shots as well...90% of my practice is to center chest area.

Depending on your ability ( age, eyes, etc...)...for an average shooter you might set a standard to hit that center target ( hands at side - draw and fire 4 rounds inside of 3.5 sec )..../ A Master class level shooter might set a standard for that at 1.6 sec...../ and a Beginner might set the standard at 5.4 sec.... with a breakdown of times like this :

Draw to 1 shot ( Master 1.0 sec / B class 2.0 sec / Beginner 3.0 sec
Split times to each shot after ( Master 0.2 sec / B class 0.5 sec / Beginner 0.8 sec )....

But the point is ...draw safely ( from concealment garmet ideally ) -- and place effective "Tactical Shots" on target...at some standard.
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Reload drills are a part of these drills too ...a B class shooter should be able to execute a speed reload ( gun goes to slide lock - drop mag - grab mag off your belt - insert - and fire 1 shot on target in under 3.0 sec / Master 1.5 sec / Beginner 4.5 sec....
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Personally, I practice drills like this every week..usually twice a week ( 3 or 4 boxes per range session )... to stay sharp ...for Defense.

Is that what you saw them doing...I don't know ...doesn't sound like it. But I think these kinds of drills have a lot of value/and they're fun --- and I know its a priveledge, as a membership range in my area, allows us to shoot like this every week.

The ICE-QT targer....outlines these areas pretty well in m view.
https://www.google.com/search?q=ice...=ZG_sVqnpIpe2jwOw6JqYCg#imgrc=YyX8pyA5jK4yFM:

When my buddies and I train ...we ignore the 3" by 5" area right by the fist / the next outline is the primary target .../ the next outline is a miss / and unless we are shooting "head shots"...a shot to the Face or Head area is a miss.

We primarily practice between 5 and 10 yds.../ personally I expect my scores to be consistently about 95% of a class B level ( and I'm in my late 60's -- bad eyes, some arthritis )....and often I'm happy to be in between level B (3.5 sec ) - and Master class( 1.6 Sec) . Some days I can run Draw and Fire 4 at a AA class level 2.2 sec...and some days I can't / A class is at 2.9 sec ( and class B 3.5 sec )..../ I want to be at least 90% hits on target and under the time standard for Class A...and I feel good about carrying on the street.

If I can't shoot my drills at a 90% level of Class A...then I need to practice more / more dry fire, more focus, stance, grip, etc..
 
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It Depends

Although I've done it, there is little value to just dumping the mag, with the possible exception mentioned of working on recoil control.

I'm relatively new to defensive handguns and have had me CCDW for only a few months. The range I use does not allow fire from the draw, so one of my routines is to have the firearm on the bench, safety on, pick it up, sweep the safety and put five rounds into the target, flash sighting, as quickly as I can. That's my version of rapid fire.

I'll practice that way through a mag or two at 5, 7 and 10 yards, evaluating the group after each five rounds. Another variation is to start with my back turned downrange, (gun benched, of course).

I've put about 500 rounds through the gun so far, and can see significant improvement since starting.
 
For some reason I thought I mentioned the type of target these two were trying to shoot, but I guess not. They were shooting at standard B-27 silhouette targets. Like this:

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/148/148094.jpg

And for the sake of honesty, I too have done more than a few mag dumps in my time, just for fun. A couple mags at a time, maybe. But I've never sent 300+ rounds downrange in less than 20 minutes as these two gents did.

Mostly for defensive practice I shoot controlled pairs (I'd call it double-tapping, except I don't go quite fast enough to honestly call it double-tapping) starting from the low-ready position, since most ranges near me don't allow you to draw and shoot. A couple times a month I'll include shooting quick 5- or 6-shot sets, but I almost never fire all five shots at the same POA. For example, I'll set up one of those targets that has four or five bulls-eyes on it and 'double-tap' a BE, then switch to a different BE and try to double-tap that one, and so on. Here's an example of a target I might use:

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/aDoAAMXQuCdTf8xl/s-l300.jpg

This one's a Shoot-N-C, but there are several companies that make something similar. There's one that's about 3/4 the size of a B-27 that I like because it forces me to move both my eyes and hands further to engage the next BE (that one is non-reactive, and I think the range has them made for them).

The exception for me would be the two weeks before I head out on one of my long backwoods hike-in trips. Then I practice rapid-firing 4- or 5-shot strings with either the .357 mag or the .44 mag at a single bulls-eye below my line of sight (bears/lions/javelinas brain-cases on the charge would probably all be below my normal line-of-sight). I save the last round for if they end up on top of me. That round goes into an ear canal or against their chest, dependent on what I could reach.

@Guggmeister;

I've only been reloading for fifteen months, so I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone needs to test fire 300 rounds to check for reliable cycling. For myself, I load up two mags worth for a check-for-function test for a pistol. for a rifle I load up quite a few more, but that's for rifle.

@BigJimP;

I like your drills; I'm going to have to give some of those a try next time I get to the range. Thanks.
 
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With pistols, I shoot at a 6" diameter circle from 20 ft.; my score is the percentage that are inside the circle. I get a rd. off maybe every 1.5 seconds, not really rapid fire.

I do the same thing with my AR, 100 ft, standing free offhand, no sling, through a 2x scope. That's tougher than it sounds.
 
You're welcome.....I missed your note on the B27, sorry....if I were using that for tac scoring i'd consider any shot inside 8 ring a "tactically good shot" ---7 ring would be (-1), the rest of silhouette including head (-2), white part of target (-3)....any shot off paper (-5) ....and any shot overtime (-2)...so you get scored for time and misses & quality of misses.

If they can't hit the silhouette .....dumping mag or not.....it's just a waste of ammo...and not useful in any way, in my view.

If you are at a range where you can't draw from holster ....or for new shooters, we let them shoot from low ready. If we drill ourselves from low ready / class B is 1 sec to 1 shot vs 2 sec for draw to 1 shot / A is 0.8 sec / AA is 0.7 sec / master is 0.5 sec.......split & speed reloads remain the same as before. Everyone shoots to their standard based on their skill level ...and to push themselves a little in my small group of friends. Course of fire I make up weekly is 100 rds ..and I put out class B - and each shooter adjusts as we run it with timer. Most of us are B and A....but we have a guy who is class C and learning & improving...

Drop me a note if you want more detail...
 
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I don't think anyone needs to test fire 300 rounds to check for reliable cycling.
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I used to think that, too.
Until I unfortunately got a pistol that started out great and went totally to crap around the 500 mark.
After that experience, I go longer now before passing judgment.
 
Training with the M-16 RIFLE, in the U.S.A.F, as a Security Specialist, I had one wise instructor tell me that there are only two reasons to go "full-auto". 1) You are about to die, because you are getting over-run, or being ambushed; 2) you are ambushing a group of enemy combatants, and they are so close together that you are trying to do as much damage as possible, as quickly as possible.

As such, I always tried to learn to shoot semi-automatic as quickly as possible - while being as accurate as possible.

A whole buncha bullets emptied from your weapon, as fast as possible, does NO good if they don't hit anything!

Having said THAT - I believe a lot of rapid-fire shooting, especially by "amateurs", is a "look at me!" thing.

I would recommend shooting slowly - one shot at a time - until you get VERY accurate FIRST (I'm talking dime-sized holes at 7 yards). Then, increase your speed incrementally, until you understand what your grip, trigger-squeeze and sight picture does under rapid-fire. Once your shot groups get larger than a 6 inch spread, you are firing too fast (especially if you are shooting at a target under 10 yards)!

I've seen good shooters keep a tight group, firing very quickly, at 25 yards - but that takes a LOT of practice. I always liked the "double-tap" approach - shoot twice, assess your target, repeat the "double-tap" as needed. But, even with that, build up your "double-tap" speed gradually.

Shooting fast is fun - wasting your bullets ain't.
 
The COF ( course of fire) for this week with my buddies..:

1. Draw and fire 8 ( B class 5.5 sec) ( A 4.5 sec) 6 yds, repeat @ 7 & 8
24 rds

2. Buddy load...loose 10 rds on bench, empty gun. Buddy loads at least one round in each mag ...and puts one mag in gun and chambers 1 rd, leaves gun on bench with safety on. Buddy puts other 2 mags in shooters mag pouch on his belt. ( so shooter cannot just count -shoot 4 - drop mag, etc )...

Draw and fire 10 - reload as necessary. ( B 11.5 sec) A 9.5 sec. 6 yds
Repeat at 7 yds 20 rds

3. Draw and fire 6 ( B 4.5 sec ) ( A 3.7 sec) 6.7 and 8 yds 18 rds

4. Draw fire 5 - speed reload - Fire 5 ( B 9.0 sec ) ( A 7.4 sec) 6,7 & 8 yds 30 rds

5. Draw fire 4 ( B 3.5 sec) ( A 2.9 sec) 6,7 yds 8 rds

Total 100 rds COF ...my personal goal 95% plus.

Target zone is center chest / or 8 zone in on B-27 --- ( -2 for an overtime on any one section ) / shots in next zone 0r 7 zone on B-27 ( -1) / (-2 ) for any other shot in silhouette / (-3 for any shot outside silhouette on paper) / -5 if shot did not hit paper.

97% is a solid score...
 
Training with the M-16 RIFLE, in the U.S.A.F, as a Security Specialist, I had one wise instructor tell me that there are only two reasons to go "full-auto".
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But then he was not a "combat" soldier. Instructors with Army combat experience may refer to using suppressing fire on an unseen enemy. What does an Air Force instuctor know about combat anyway? :D
 
I do sometimes practice double taps. The range won't let ya do more than 2 shots fast here.

Anyway - if you grabbed your gun in a self defense situation, and someone is shooting at you or about to... Being able to quickly put at least 2 shots on target is a worthwhile skill.

It is not easy to get that 2nd shot to be near the first. For whatever reason, I can do better on the 2nd shot when I shoot 1 handed over 2 handed. I keep a separate flashlight (it is not mounted on my handgun) with my night stand gun. So, being able to double tap 1 handed is a worthwhile skill.
 
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