Any Practical Benefits to Rapid fire practice?

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Rangerrich99

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Is there any benefit(s) to practicing emptying your handgun as rapidly as possible?

The reason I ask is that almost every time I go to the range there's at least one person (or two or three) that fire their guns as quickly as they can at whatever target they set up over and over again. I've always ignored these types of shooters at the range, as I have always believed that this type of practice is worthless, except as entertainment.

But today while taking a short break and watching these two the above question popped into my mind.

Is there something I'm missing? Should I occasionally practice this sort of shooting?

For myself, I always start with slow fire for about twenty rounds give or take, then two rounds at a bulls-eye, then assess, then two rounds at a bull, switch to another bull and fire two rounds then assess, etc. I have blasted away at targets before, but never have I thought there was a practical advantage to emptying a mag as quickly as I could pull the trigger. But I'm no expert, so I thought I'd ask the question.

Thanks in advance for your replies.
 
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Depends what you're at the range to do.

For example, if you enjoy 3gun competitions, you might be practicing some component of being able to do this: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/03/03/watch-keanu-reeves-shoot-3-gun/

Or if you're practicing for defensive firearm use, you might be trying to learn how to do this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFRwuqAfBQw

Then again, it might just be some guy with a gun who likes making loud noises really fast, and doesn't much care where the bullets go. That can be fun to some folks. Fun is a thing too.

pax
 
Pax;

I didn't ask, so I can't be certain of course, but I don't think they were trying to practice for either of the two scenarios in your videos. They both set B-27 targets at 7 yards and unloaded a mag in the general direction of their respective target, somewhat clumsily executed a reload, and then emptied the second mag at said target. For shooter 1, with his first target, 8 rounds were in the white, 3 were on the edge between the white and the silhouette, only 1 round was within the 9-ring, and one round inside the 8-ring. The rest were spread unevenly around the black. Shooter 2 did about the same, except he had a single hit in the x-ring.

By the way, that vid of Keanu Reeves in nothing short of stunning. I still think of that guy as Ted in B&TEA. That he can shoot like that always surprises me. And makes me a bit envious, if I have to tell the truth.
 
@C7AR15;

That's a cool video, thanks for putting that up.

I've never heard of that drill, though I practice something similar with my wheelguns occasionally.

It may be that these two young men were attempting something similar to the Bill Drill, I have to allow for that. Though I seriously doubt either of them have ever heard of Mr. Bill Wilson.

On the bright side, I now have a new drill to try out, and for that, thanks.
 
I don't do mag dumps, but I do controlled pairs, double taps, and short strings sure. It depends on what you're defining as "rapid fire practice".
 
^^^^^^^^ that^^^^^.

Unless you are practicing for some sort of competition. Most ranges around here will kick you out for doing mag dumps.
 
I see those same types if I have to go the local range on a weekend. Seems like about every third person. They put the target up 10-15 feet away and a few sends later they are done with the magazine. Only time I ever see someone shooting two foot pattern groups. The best part is when they are done they proclaim to their buddy "this pistol is an awesome shooter" LOL. Then the buddy says "that target is so dead" and takes a picture of it.
 
Okay, yes I believe they were doing mag dumps, and most places here in the Phoenix area don't allow them either, but a couple places I go to seem to allow it. Or maybe some people just don't get caught when I'm around.

Anyway, to make my original question more precise, is there a practical benefit to 'mag dumping'?
 
Turning money into noise is a waste. but running the firearm as fast as you can while still making hits on target is certainly a good skill to have and one too many people ignore.

"Mag dumps" can help with getting rid of flinch or slapping the trigger for people who 1. Do not get to shoot as much as they would like or 2. Do not dry fire as much as they should.

While too rare, there are stages where 3, 4, 5 or 6 rounds per target are required in the action sports. Alas, there is not a thing special about 2 shots per paper and I do all I can to break that monotony when I practice...just in case.

If you have an inconsistent, weak or sloppy grip, it will fall apart after a few rounds. I am always amazed how many people can shoot a great single, an okay double, but by the time they hit 3 or 4 rounds, they are regripping the pistol. If that is you, then shooting a lot of rounds as fast as you can won't happen. So it is a good test of proper grip strength and technique. If you can't shoot 10 rounds in under 2 seconds and hold a paper plate at 5 yards, then there is likely a grip issue. stop, figure it out, improve and go back to work on it.

There are other benefits, but those are some of the more prominent ones.
 
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Is there any benefit(s) to practicing emptying your handgun as rapidly as possible?
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If you're doing it in a controlled manner - yes. It's the only way to learn to ride the front sight; and learn to make a rapid decision as to whether the gun is on target or not.

As an example, my wife likes to shoot action pistol. Scoring is a combination of accuracy and time. She's very accurate, but middle of the group in speed.

I've been working with her to just shoot as rapidly as possible and stop trying to precision aim every shot. She's learned that she can hit the target nearly as accurately rapidly shooting as she can carefully aiming - but, at a greatly increased speed.

That practice moved her up about six places the last time she shot in competition from where she usually finishes.

The only way she's going to continue to advance, is to get used to shooting as fast as she can, while still accurately hitting the target - the only way you do that is to practice repeated rapid fire.

Whether the people you observed were practicing or just doing magazine dumps is unknown - but, there are reasons for doing, what appears to be, "mag dumps."
 
@MarkCO & BC;

Thank you both for your replies. And here I thought all you could learn from that behavior was how to waste bullets ASAP. I do in fact sometimes have to 're-grip' when I shoot more than 5-7 rounds in quick succession. I guess I have to work on my grip technique some more.

Gotta get ready to head out for work, but keep 'em coming and thanks again.
 
Like others, I don't think there is any value in seeing how fast you can empty the pistol. There is real value in being able to quickly put rounds on target. I am also one who wants to carefully shoot tight little groups. I have had to work hard to learn to be willing to let those groups open slightly in order to shoot faster. Finding the perfect balance of speed and accuracy takes practice. You cannot learn to do it slowly shooting bullseye.
 
You cannot learn to do it slowly shooting bullseye.
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True.

It took me years to break through the skills I had honed for hunting and the straight line sports of trying to have every shot perfect. If you were to give me a new shooter, I will take the fast train wreck every time over the Annie Oakley. Speed is hard to train, accuracy is pretty easy to train.

Also, under pressure, we have one grip strength in both hands (30/70 crap is out the window) and we rarely see the front sight. So the training, live and dry, that makes the skills second nature, or better yet first nature, only help when you want or need the speed and accuracy.

If you want to be a very good pistol shooter (not just a bullseye shooter), there are three fundamentals that must be mastered...Increase your grip strength, learn to see what you need to see (sometimes it is a crisp front sight, sometimes the block of the pistol), accept that speed IS a tactic/skill worthy of mastery.
 
Any value ? HECK YES ! Standing still and shooting slow fire at paper or steel targets accomplishes nothing as regards real world training. Any intelligently thought out practice session should include marksmanship practice (slow fire), as well as rapid fire practice for combat training. That is, if the shooter has any desire to actually be prepared for a real world SD situation.

Note that I am making a strong distinction between actual rapid-fire PRACTICE......and mall-ninja style, useless ammo blasting. They are two VERY different things.

I ALWAYS practice rapid fire, every trip to the range. I run my range sessions as follows: I start with slow fire, for warm-up and marksmanship practice, followed by practicing "double-tap" fire for some period of time....followed by genuine rapid fire. Carefully aimed rapid fire, with the object being to re-acquire the target as quickly as possible (after each shot) and place the maximum number of rounds on paper. I use 1/2 of an 8.5 x 11 sheet of paper, with a 1.5" diameter dot in the middle, as my standard target, or 6" steel plates, depending on where I am shooting that day. If the particular range allows, I practice moving laterally while firing, as well (as well as rapid reloads and jam clearance). I also shoot at varying distances during each session: usually 5 yards as a minimum, with about 20 yards as maximum (for hand guns, obviously).

I do a variation of the same thing when shooting a couple of my rifles (namely my old Mauser carbine and my AR-15). I practice rapid fire as well as slow fire, from different positions and improvised rests in some cases, from 50 to 200 yards.

To reiterate, standing in one position and shooting slow fire at one distance doesn't accomplish much, other than training you to shoot slow fire at one distance. It certainly won't help you in a gun fight.
 
The only time I have EVER emptied a magazine as fast as I could was during the range time during the class for my CPL license. Our instructors were experienced LE as well as former spec ops military. They set up the scenario of a SD situation where the perp was in body contact with you, struggling and attempting to do you lethal harm. This of course was done close up on a target - drawing the weapon and basically pointing and emptying it as might occur in that situation.

Personally, I saw little use of it as I was using a SR9 with a high capacity double stack magazine - I believe 17 rounds. I could see in the heat of the moment, adrenalin pumping, etc. where you might squeeze off 5 or 6 shots out of fear - or in the case of if I was carrying my SmithModel 36 J frame of emptying the cylinder of 5 - but 17?

I see this at some of the ranges I've been to as well and I just shake my head. Not only at the waste of ammo - and I reload all of mine - but for what purpose? I think time is better spent in practicing double taps with accuracy - for SD situations.

I don't shoot competition so I can't speak for that. Perhaps there are situations where you need to do it and in that case - more power to you. It's your ammo. :)
 
Mag dumps, not so much unless you just want to see how fast you can empty a magazine/s. Double taps and rapid fire up to 5 shots is another matter. The benefit is practice for a defensive situation.

I practice slow fire at different distances but, I also do double tap drills and fast fire drills. I cap it at 5 rounds max and no further than 10 yards. Most times it's 5 to 7 yards.

Here's a target that I made up and posted here before. It was shot at five yards and I only loaded five rounds in each magazine. I shot as soon as each gun hit the reset. Each gun shot its own logo which are about an inch and half. These targets are super cheap as they are just copy paper. Capping at 5 rounds is also far less costly than doing magazine dumps and works better to build muscle memory.

 
Rental range magazine dumps are indeed converting money into noise.

But there is a place for rapid fire.
Shooting Monday and yesterday, I fired 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 shots as specified at the appropriate targets. Shooting was timed, hits were scored.
 
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