CobrayCommando
Moderator
Let's hope they fell in something unpleasant.
Anti-gun does not = automatic Leftist.
- Thread starter Love&Hate12
- Start date
JuanCarlos
New member
That's not quite what I was talking about. I was talking about how, for instance, at one point thinking black people shouldn't be property was a liberal ideal. Nowadays even conservatives are allowed to think so. Same for women's rights, equal treatment for minorities, etc.
So, put more clearly: today's leftist liberal ideals are all too often tomorrow's culturally accepted norms.
Wildalaska
Moderator
OK so I beleive that certain "gun control" measures are constitutional and necessary...so y'all are anti me and I'm a leftist, ja?
WildlotsofushereAlaska
A couple of things. On the gun issue, some of you may not like it, but a politicians stance on guns is ususally a good litmus test about where they stand on other issues. As with everything in life there are always exceptions. That said however, the most rabidly anti gun folks are almost always the most liberal as well.
Furthermore I reserve the right to call Sarah Brady pretty much any name I wish. Would I do it in a public debate or in some arena where I was representing gun owners, no. Will I do it on a private forums yes. Those of you who think that her organization and others such as handgun inc are bastions of conservative thought need a reality check.
Secondly, it always amuses me when people make the statement that christian values are socially backwards. As if somehow it is by sheer luck alone that we managed to progress some 200 odd years with these moral tyrants at the helm of our nation.
Lets be perfectly candid here. Gays aren't really being honest when they say they want the right to marry. They already have the right to marry. There isn't a single law that prevents a gay couple from going to church (or whereever else) having a ceremony, inviting family, having a reception, buying a house, having careers, living happily every after and doing 99% of the things that straight couples do. Bowers has been overruled. These folks can go to town in the privacy of their own home and you won't hear a peep from me.
The real issue is the benefits. They want the tax breaks. They want the government subsidies. All this crap about being "recognized" by the government is really just crap. If tomorrow the government abolished all marriages do you think I would tell my wife "aw shucks" and drop her off at her parents house? Do you think that anyone else here would either? I don't think so. A mariage is an agreement between 2 people for either religious reasons, personal reasons, or both. Signing the marriage license is a tedious formality of little consequence from the perspective of getting married.
So if we're going to be honest about this then lets be accurate. Gays want the benefits. So the question then is, does the government have the right to enourage things that are in its interest. I think it does. Marriages produce children and strong communities, and the government should be able to subsidize those things which it deems valuable so long as it is not biased against race, sex or religion. Recognizing straight marriages is not biased against any of these.
Furthermore, I ought to have a say in what my government supports. If something is offensive to a persons sense of morality, it doesn't make them a bigot to stand up for what they believe in. If that were the case, a majority of the country would be bigoted I suppose, given the overwhelming referendum against gay marriage 3 years ago.
Furthermore I reserve the right to call Sarah Brady pretty much any name I wish. Would I do it in a public debate or in some arena where I was representing gun owners, no. Will I do it on a private forums yes. Those of you who think that her organization and others such as handgun inc are bastions of conservative thought need a reality check.
Secondly, it always amuses me when people make the statement that christian values are socially backwards. As if somehow it is by sheer luck alone that we managed to progress some 200 odd years with these moral tyrants at the helm of our nation.
Lets be perfectly candid here. Gays aren't really being honest when they say they want the right to marry. They already have the right to marry. There isn't a single law that prevents a gay couple from going to church (or whereever else) having a ceremony, inviting family, having a reception, buying a house, having careers, living happily every after and doing 99% of the things that straight couples do. Bowers has been overruled. These folks can go to town in the privacy of their own home and you won't hear a peep from me.
The real issue is the benefits. They want the tax breaks. They want the government subsidies. All this crap about being "recognized" by the government is really just crap. If tomorrow the government abolished all marriages do you think I would tell my wife "aw shucks" and drop her off at her parents house? Do you think that anyone else here would either? I don't think so. A mariage is an agreement between 2 people for either religious reasons, personal reasons, or both. Signing the marriage license is a tedious formality of little consequence from the perspective of getting married.
So if we're going to be honest about this then lets be accurate. Gays want the benefits. So the question then is, does the government have the right to enourage things that are in its interest. I think it does. Marriages produce children and strong communities, and the government should be able to subsidize those things which it deems valuable so long as it is not biased against race, sex or religion. Recognizing straight marriages is not biased against any of these.
Furthermore, I ought to have a say in what my government supports. If something is offensive to a persons sense of morality, it doesn't make them a bigot to stand up for what they believe in. If that were the case, a majority of the country would be bigoted I suppose, given the overwhelming referendum against gay marriage 3 years ago.
Wildalaska
Moderator
Ah generaliztions...hows this:
That said however, the most rabidly pro gun folks are almost always the most rascist, sexist and intolerant as well.
WildleavinggaymarriageoutAlaska
JuanCarlos
New member
We had a gay marriage thread. It was an offshoot of this one. It got locked. If you want to debate it, wait for the next one (I'll probably be the one to start it, I can PM you if you want).
What you shouldn't do is post a wall of text making points against something that you know will get the thread locked should people take it up and reply. It's bad form. So suffice it to say that simply because I'm not responding to your points here does not mean I agree, or make you right. Oh, and I have responses STAGE 2. Do I ever have responses. I can't wait until the next one. I hope you'll be there.
EDIT: We could do it by PM, I suppose...but you made your points publicly, I'll just wait a little while to make mine.
This is not a "private" forum. Registration is not (IIRC) required to read, and anybody can join. As I said earlier in the thread, I found this forum by a google search when looking for accessories for a pistol. Do you think some on-the-fence "moderate," who maybe just bought his first home defense gun might not do the same? And might not be persuaded to one way or the other regarding gun control based on the attitudes and arguments he sees from people here?
I made this same point already, mind you. But based your post, I suspect you haven't read the whole thread.
What you shouldn't do is post a wall of text making points against something that you know will get the thread locked should people take it up and reply. It's bad form. So suffice it to say that simply because I'm not responding to your points here does not mean I agree, or make you right. Oh, and I have responses STAGE 2. Do I ever have responses. I can't wait until the next one. I hope you'll be there.
EDIT: We could do it by PM, I suppose...but you made your points publicly, I'll just wait a little while to make mine.
This is not a "private" forum. Registration is not (IIRC) required to read, and anybody can join. As I said earlier in the thread, I found this forum by a google search when looking for accessories for a pistol. Do you think some on-the-fence "moderate," who maybe just bought his first home defense gun might not do the same? And might not be persuaded to one way or the other regarding gun control based on the attitudes and arguments he sees from people here?
I made this same point already, mind you. But based your post, I suspect you haven't read the whole thread.
Actually most southern demos. are not leftists. Generally they are from different areas. The reason I imagine is they mostly grew up with guns and in a lower income area, as farming communities usually are.
These dems. stand for the economic well being of poorer families. There is an exception to every rule
These dems. stand for the economic well being of poorer families. There is an exception to every rule
BoringAccountant
New member
Wow, what a post to read at work...that must have taken me 45 minutes to read all the posts as well as the other related thread about gay marraige, etc.
This is my take on the posed question.
Anti-Gun does not mean Automatic Leftist.
Completely false...
The leftist views in the United States believe that gun control is a good thing. Yes, there are leftist politicians (and lets be clear first, we never truly know a politician's views, just what he says to the masses to get him in) that think gun control is a bad idea, but they are definitely unheard on any mainstream media, and would probably not make that known to too many people for fear of losing their parties backing.
Other leftist views include, homosexuality is ok, Abortion is a woman's right to choose, etc. If someone believes in just one of these ideas and not the other two, it doesnt make them a complete leftist, but it has aligned them with the leftist view of that issue.
I am 100% against gun control, 100% against gay marriage, and 100% against killing a baby, but that does not mean I am 100% Republican.
I have aligned myself with those views because thats what I believe, but I also believe that some of the Democratic or leftist views are more aligned with my beliefs.
To sum it all up...I believe this post and many like it are meaningless, inasmuch, they are not going to solve any problems, they are merely an outlet for people to express their views, which is a great thing (hence why I am on my soapbox right now) but in the end, everyone will still think the same thing they have always, just more strongly now knowing what the opposite person believes.
When I see the legal and political forum, I assume it is for legal issues, all legal issues, not a place for someone to rant and rave about why they hate being called a republican or right-winger if they oppose gun control.
To all those out there that oppose gun control you are in-line with the MAJORITY of the right-wing party. Is that a bad thing, no, why should it be?
To all those out there that are for gay marriage you are in-lin with the MAJORITY of the left-wing party. Again, not a bad thing, just your views
Lastly, for all of those who have just been aligned with the right-wing and left-wing party on the above issues or any other issues that cross party lines...you must be an honest American who realizes it has and never will be about party lines, its about picking the people you can most closely align yourself to lead the nation...maybe yourself if you cant find someone
This is my take on the posed question.
Anti-Gun does not mean Automatic Leftist.
Completely false...
The leftist views in the United States believe that gun control is a good thing. Yes, there are leftist politicians (and lets be clear first, we never truly know a politician's views, just what he says to the masses to get him in) that think gun control is a bad idea, but they are definitely unheard on any mainstream media, and would probably not make that known to too many people for fear of losing their parties backing.
Other leftist views include, homosexuality is ok, Abortion is a woman's right to choose, etc. If someone believes in just one of these ideas and not the other two, it doesnt make them a complete leftist, but it has aligned them with the leftist view of that issue.
I am 100% against gun control, 100% against gay marriage, and 100% against killing a baby, but that does not mean I am 100% Republican.
I have aligned myself with those views because thats what I believe, but I also believe that some of the Democratic or leftist views are more aligned with my beliefs.
To sum it all up...I believe this post and many like it are meaningless, inasmuch, they are not going to solve any problems, they are merely an outlet for people to express their views, which is a great thing (hence why I am on my soapbox right now) but in the end, everyone will still think the same thing they have always, just more strongly now knowing what the opposite person believes.
When I see the legal and political forum, I assume it is for legal issues, all legal issues, not a place for someone to rant and rave about why they hate being called a republican or right-winger if they oppose gun control.
To all those out there that oppose gun control you are in-line with the MAJORITY of the right-wing party. Is that a bad thing, no, why should it be?
To all those out there that are for gay marriage you are in-lin with the MAJORITY of the left-wing party. Again, not a bad thing, just your views
Lastly, for all of those who have just been aligned with the right-wing and left-wing party on the above issues or any other issues that cross party lines...you must be an honest American who realizes it has and never will be about party lines, its about picking the people you can most closely align yourself to lead the nation...maybe yourself if you cant find someone
JuanCarlos
New member
Seriously. I'm outta here.
@BoringAccountant: Maybe I'm just strange, but I've actually had my political views change thanks to discussions I've had with others...including some I've had on political forums just like this one. Maybe when I get older my views will end up set in stone right now, but nowadays I like to think of myself as pretty open minded...when somebody makes a good point, I notice it at use it to re-evaluate my views. And again, every now and then some of them even change.