Sort of, but only in a limited context. A mass shooting is defined as three or more victims. When three people get shot in an event at Walmart it is national news. When three people get shot in an event in Houston's 5th Ward it is a slow Tuesday. If the same guy shoots three different people on three different streets in the same night that would be considered a mass shooting. If he does that in Chicago the police will never catch him or maybe not even realize it was the same guy. Sometimes these events are not known or even sorted out until months later. Few people cared when it happened and no one is going to care at all six months later.
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Anti-depressants and mass shootings
- Thread starter simonov jr
- Start date
Sort of, but only in a limited context. A mass shooting is defined as three or more victims. When three people get shot in an event at Walmart it is national news. When three people get shot in an event in Houston's 5th Ward it is a slow Tuesday. If the same guy shoots three different people on three different streets in the same night that would be considered a mass shooting. If he does that in Chicago the police will never catch him or maybe not even realize it was the same guy. Sometimes these events are not known or even sorted out until months later. Few people cared when it happened and no one is going to care at all six months later.
"...antidepressants for pain..." The Mayo Clinic says they work for chronic pain.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/pain-medications/art-20045647
I'm of the opinion that ADHD was invented by teachers to explain why their students were graduating without being able to read and write caused by their lack of ability to teach. Highly likely the kid is just bored due to him/her being taught incorrectly.
In any case, the whole issue is the result of easy access to drugs and over proscribing meds by MD's assorted. Easier to medicate a kid than help him.
"...opioids..." Makes me crazy when the media hacks babble about a crisis that doesn't exist. Nobody is forcing the druggies to take these illegal drugs. Now our local "Health Unit" and government have decided the tax payer should aid and abet organized crime that supplies 'em with publicly funded "opium dens".
https://www.mayoclinic.org/pain-medications/art-20045647
I'm of the opinion that ADHD was invented by teachers to explain why their students were graduating without being able to read and write caused by their lack of ability to teach. Highly likely the kid is just bored due to him/her being taught incorrectly.
In any case, the whole issue is the result of easy access to drugs and over proscribing meds by MD's assorted. Easier to medicate a kid than help him.
"...opioids..." Makes me crazy when the media hacks babble about a crisis that doesn't exist. Nobody is forcing the druggies to take these illegal drugs. Now our local "Health Unit" and government have decided the tax payer should aid and abet organized crime that supplies 'em with publicly funded "opium dens".
The number of people shot making a shooting a mass shooting has been coming down (in steps) for some time now. At one point, some time back it took 4 people KILLED to be a mass shooting. Today, its 3 people shot, though there are differences between how different agencies and the press classify it.
At some point, someone will claim it is a mass shooting if more than one person is shot at.
And, fwiw when the thread title is Anti-Depressants and mass shootings, then mass shooters/shootings are not "only in a limited context" they are the focus of the OP and the discussion.
At some point, someone will claim it is a mass shooting if more than one person is shot at.
And, fwiw when the thread title is Anti-Depressants and mass shootings, then mass shooters/shootings are not "only in a limited context" they are the focus of the OP and the discussion.
I'm not an expert on any of this.
While it may be easy to connect the drugs with the killings....and I don't know..perhaps legitimately so,
Generally anti depressants would be prescribed for Depression,yes? So,the Depression might be closer to the root cause?
And in the Darkness of Depression,some folks dwell on thoughts of harming themselves or others?
Which came first,the chicken or the egg? Is the root cause the depression or the anti-depressant? Which should we be focusing on?
Its my understandin the pills,like Prozac,work almost like audio filters on your stereo. They filter the intensity of highs and lows.. They don't solve anything.
Cortizone for physical pain can permit movement,range of motion.It solves nothing,but it can give a window of opportunity for physical therapy to do some good at the root cause.
Once again.I;m not a Doctor or an expert. I might be wrong.
But it might be that the drugs can temporarily provide some stability while the real sources of the pain can be worked through.
There are a lot of folks who lack skills to deal with relationships and life. Those CAN be learned.
Relationships can cause crazy making pain. I've been told the major building blocks of Depression are Fear and Anger that gets swallowed.
It can be that learning ways to deal with fear and anger is where these knots get untied.
Then,what can be learned to reduce the amount of fear and anger? Generally,one form or another of Maturity skills can help. Often anger is about unmet expectations. How many expectations do I need to have?Fewer expectations,less anger.
Kids get traumatized,families break up...if the Father is driven out .
In some cases,the boy's Mom is soured on men. The boy gets no contact with decent men. He can't transition from boy to man. More pain.
He learns to be ashamed of being a young man. Those who are ashamed of who they are don't know how to be ashamed of what they do.
As far as Veterans...I'm not a Veteran. I've never been in combat.I've never seen a friend shot dead or pulled folks out of a HumVee after an IED.
And then had to just suck it up and go back to work. It would seem the heart has to just get locked in a box and frozen. It might be that when that Soldier gets home,and holds a child or spouse...what is frozen thaws...and bleeds.
I don't know. I'm not a Veteran. Maybe I should shut up.
I'm thinking I can have compassion for what I cannot know or understand.
I don't think there is a simplistic answer to the problems in our society. Its not generally the pills,though maybe they can play a part for some people. Pot can play a part for some people and not others.. Video games can play a part for some people.
Maybe mega dosing vitamins can mess up head chemicals.
It can be a recreational escape to step into your head with one foot. Step in with both feet...maybe people become targets in a game.
We label people,put them in mental boxes,that WE create about who THEY are. How true is that? Do we dehumanize when we do that?? Once we dehumanize well,its different,isn't it? Its "Them" not "Us" Its "Only a …."
I don't know.
I'll close with this. Don't stigmatize or judge the folks who reach a difficult,painful place in life and decide to get help. They might just end up being far more together than the folks who go through life saying "I'm fine"
While it may be easy to connect the drugs with the killings....and I don't know..perhaps legitimately so,
Generally anti depressants would be prescribed for Depression,yes? So,the Depression might be closer to the root cause?
And in the Darkness of Depression,some folks dwell on thoughts of harming themselves or others?
Which came first,the chicken or the egg? Is the root cause the depression or the anti-depressant? Which should we be focusing on?
Its my understandin the pills,like Prozac,work almost like audio filters on your stereo. They filter the intensity of highs and lows.. They don't solve anything.
Cortizone for physical pain can permit movement,range of motion.It solves nothing,but it can give a window of opportunity for physical therapy to do some good at the root cause.
Once again.I;m not a Doctor or an expert. I might be wrong.
But it might be that the drugs can temporarily provide some stability while the real sources of the pain can be worked through.
There are a lot of folks who lack skills to deal with relationships and life. Those CAN be learned.
Relationships can cause crazy making pain. I've been told the major building blocks of Depression are Fear and Anger that gets swallowed.
It can be that learning ways to deal with fear and anger is where these knots get untied.
Then,what can be learned to reduce the amount of fear and anger? Generally,one form or another of Maturity skills can help. Often anger is about unmet expectations. How many expectations do I need to have?Fewer expectations,less anger.
Kids get traumatized,families break up...if the Father is driven out .
In some cases,the boy's Mom is soured on men. The boy gets no contact with decent men. He can't transition from boy to man. More pain.
He learns to be ashamed of being a young man. Those who are ashamed of who they are don't know how to be ashamed of what they do.
As far as Veterans...I'm not a Veteran. I've never been in combat.I've never seen a friend shot dead or pulled folks out of a HumVee after an IED.
And then had to just suck it up and go back to work. It would seem the heart has to just get locked in a box and frozen. It might be that when that Soldier gets home,and holds a child or spouse...what is frozen thaws...and bleeds.
I don't know. I'm not a Veteran. Maybe I should shut up.
I'm thinking I can have compassion for what I cannot know or understand.
I don't think there is a simplistic answer to the problems in our society. Its not generally the pills,though maybe they can play a part for some people. Pot can play a part for some people and not others.. Video games can play a part for some people.
Maybe mega dosing vitamins can mess up head chemicals.
It can be a recreational escape to step into your head with one foot. Step in with both feet...maybe people become targets in a game.
We label people,put them in mental boxes,that WE create about who THEY are. How true is that? Do we dehumanize when we do that?? Once we dehumanize well,its different,isn't it? Its "Them" not "Us" Its "Only a …."
I don't know.
I'll close with this. Don't stigmatize or judge the folks who reach a difficult,painful place in life and decide to get help. They might just end up being far more together than the folks who go through life saying "I'm fine"
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Double Naught Spy
New member
The number of people shot making a shooting a mass shooting has been coming down (in steps) for some time now. At one point, some time back it took 4 people KILLED to be a mass shooting. Today, its 3 people shot, though there are differences between how different agencies and the press classify it.
Sort of. It is a varied history, mostly due to a lack of formal definition. The FBI defined mass murder as 4 or more killed in a single episode and location with no cooling off period, not including the shooter (1980s). Location (public or private) did not figure into the equation. After that mass shootings were said to be 4 or more people shot, but this was never formally defined as such. Some groups only wanted public mass shootings to be included and others preferred all inclusive of public or private. Some where along the way, people didn't like that and didn't want a mass shooting to be categorized as such unless it had 4 or more killed (+ the other criteria), so a mass shooting was only a mass shooting if it was first a mass murder. You could shoot 50 people, kill only 3, and it not count as a mass shooting. Then under the Obama administration, in a legal document to provide federal aid in investigations, it would only happen for a "mass killing" defined as 3 or more people killed in a public space. So you could shoot 50 people and kill only 2 and it not qualify as a mass killing, and still there is no actual definition of mass shooting by which to classify it.
This article has a good breakdown of some of the data and compilation of databases on mass shootings and how they get defined. It talks about public mass shootings, familial mass shootings (that are usually private property) and other felony mass shootings as different sorts of categories.
https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/essays/mass-shootings.html
Good link 00. RAND does (relatively) good & objective work.
As to why news outlets are using a different criteria than the FBI definition of “mass shooting”, they need sensationalism to boost ratings and up advertising revenue, whereas the rest of the world, exclusive of some agenda-driven politicos, do not.
As to why news outlets are using a different criteria than the FBI definition of “mass shooting”, they need sensationalism to boost ratings and up advertising revenue, whereas the rest of the world, exclusive of some agenda-driven politicos, do not.
Double Naught Spy
New member
Does the FBI have an actual definition of mass shooting. I know they have a study where they looked at notable public mass shootings.
My youngest, when on ADHD drugs constantly complained about headaches and "weird feelings" (he was in 5th grade at the time) and had been on ADHD drugs for a few years. We finally stopped listening to the "school experts" and took him off the meds and he is fine in that regard. Not everyone is fine when they come off those drugs, however. Too many unknowns about long term effects.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
I'm an example of the trend toward over-prescription of psychotropic drugs. Hear me out:
For a number of years I have had a nuisancy skin condition, for which I have seen both a private practice dermatologist (now retired) and dermatologists at the VA hospital. They have a name for my condition, but they don't know how to treat it. At one point, one of the dermatology residents at the VA asked me if it itched. I replied that it did not. "Okay," he said, I'll give you a prescription for the itching." (Honest -- I am not making this up, that's an exact quote.)
He prescribed Doxepin. When I got home, I looked it up. Doxepin (not to be confused with Doxycycline, which I initially did) is a psychotropic drug that's FDA-approved for treating depression. Using it to treat itching (which I did not have) wasn't illegal, but it's considered an "off-label" use.
So the VA, which is usually very conservative in what it prescribes, was willing to give me a psychotropic medication intended to treat depression -- for a dermatological itch that I didn't have. But it gets better. When I looked it up after returning home, I learned that one of the side effects of Doxepin is suicidal ideation. Yeppers -- the VA, which has a huge problem with suicides, gave a combat veteran a psychotropic drug with a known side affect of suicidal ideation with no mention of that to me. I only found out about the side effect when I read up on what Doxepin is and does. And the accompanying literature specifically says that the suicidal side effect is supposed to be discussed with the patient.
So I tossed the Doxepin, and I asked my primary doctor at the VA to put a note in my records that I should not be given any psychotropic drugs without express consent. A few years later, a different dermatology resident prescribed a medication to address some lesions on my leg. What was it? Doxepin, of course. And, again, no mention of the potential suicidal side effects.
In my layperson's opinion, psychotropic drugs are woefully over-prescribed, the patients aren't properly cautioned about side effects, and the patients aren't adequately monitored when using psychotropic drugs.
For a number of years I have had a nuisancy skin condition, for which I have seen both a private practice dermatologist (now retired) and dermatologists at the VA hospital. They have a name for my condition, but they don't know how to treat it. At one point, one of the dermatology residents at the VA asked me if it itched. I replied that it did not. "Okay," he said, I'll give you a prescription for the itching." (Honest -- I am not making this up, that's an exact quote.)
He prescribed Doxepin. When I got home, I looked it up. Doxepin (not to be confused with Doxycycline, which I initially did) is a psychotropic drug that's FDA-approved for treating depression. Using it to treat itching (which I did not have) wasn't illegal, but it's considered an "off-label" use.
So the VA, which is usually very conservative in what it prescribes, was willing to give me a psychotropic medication intended to treat depression -- for a dermatological itch that I didn't have. But it gets better. When I looked it up after returning home, I learned that one of the side effects of Doxepin is suicidal ideation. Yeppers -- the VA, which has a huge problem with suicides, gave a combat veteran a psychotropic drug with a known side affect of suicidal ideation with no mention of that to me. I only found out about the side effect when I read up on what Doxepin is and does. And the accompanying literature specifically says that the suicidal side effect is supposed to be discussed with the patient.
So I tossed the Doxepin, and I asked my primary doctor at the VA to put a note in my records that I should not be given any psychotropic drugs without express consent. A few years later, a different dermatology resident prescribed a medication to address some lesions on my leg. What was it? Doxepin, of course. And, again, no mention of the potential suicidal side effects.
In my layperson's opinion, psychotropic drugs are woefully over-prescribed, the patients aren't properly cautioned about side effects, and the patients aren't adequately monitored when using psychotropic drugs.
I'll offer an example as well. A few years ago my 12 year old son was in a bicycle wreck and we had to go to the ER to get him stitches. After the doc was done he had asked my son what his pain level was on a scale of 1-10.
He told the doctor "2", not just once but twice.
The doctor promptly prescribed an opiate.
This is extremely bad practice. It was then, it is now, except now things are being done about it.
We have nearly half a million dead in the last 15 years from opiate overdoses, something that had faded well down on the list of causes of death prior to the reintroduction in the American medical market place. More people have died from opiate related causes in the last ten years then died from all gun related causes (murder, suicide, accident). We aren't merely the largest consumer of opiates in the world, we consume 50% more than the rest of entire planet combined.
Opiates are of course a depressant. And here is the thing, once someone is hooked, not only are they likely never coming off of it but now they "need" other drugs like anti-depressants to treat the drug caused depression. But they aren't actually depressed they just hooked on a depressant drug that has strong physical withdraw effects.
And no we never picked up the opiate from Walgreens.
He told the doctor "2", not just once but twice.
The doctor promptly prescribed an opiate.
This is extremely bad practice. It was then, it is now, except now things are being done about it.
We have nearly half a million dead in the last 15 years from opiate overdoses, something that had faded well down on the list of causes of death prior to the reintroduction in the American medical market place. More people have died from opiate related causes in the last ten years then died from all gun related causes (murder, suicide, accident). We aren't merely the largest consumer of opiates in the world, we consume 50% more than the rest of entire planet combined.
Opiates are of course a depressant. And here is the thing, once someone is hooked, not only are they likely never coming off of it but now they "need" other drugs like anti-depressants to treat the drug caused depression. But they aren't actually depressed they just hooked on a depressant drug that has strong physical withdraw effects.
And no we never picked up the opiate from Walgreens.