Anti-depressants and mass shootings

A minor point MTT-TL- I don’t know how you can say that my recollection of events, namely that I don’t recall the public release of toxicology reports on mass shooters in the past 10 yrs or so, “isn’t true at all”. After all, it is MY recollection. It could certainly be the case that my recollection is faulty or incomplete, hence the question. Do you have any other instances you can cite where this data set has been publicly released? That would actually be very helpful and responsive to my question...
 
The problem is the loner kid(s) who have no support group, are not invited into existing socializing groups, have little in common with others, generally don't participate in organized school or after school events, generally finds major aspects of their life difficult or impossible to deal with, and sees 'a blaze of glory' as a legitimate way out. They would have love to have talked to someone or cry for help but they either didn't feel comfortable talking, or felt they might get in trouble saying how they really feel, or no one was there to listen. They are likely to have been bullied (but not always) and found no one to help stop it. They typically don't have good interpersonal skills dealing with issues.
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Excellent point. This would fit the mold of some of the killers and much of our societal ills. As for meds reports, the only one I heard recently was from the Ohio shooter who did have antidepressants in his system along with cocaine and alcohol.
 
What may be a problem is Veterans with PTSD being treated for nightmare's and flash backs . Hope it doesn't come to that . Those who have been through war would never think of doing the horrible things that are going on but could it be a reason to take your guns.
 
simonov jr said:
This was a huge front and center issue around mass shootings in the ‘80’s and 90’s, as the generally dead perpetrators were commonly found to have been on these mind and mood altering drugs. However I can’t recall a single case in the last 10 yrs except possibly Sandy Hook where the mass shooter’s toxicology report was released. What changed, as it is literally never mentioned any more?
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Antidepressants and past use of ADD meds seem to both be huge factors.
 
What may be a problem is Veterans with PTSD being treated for nightmare's and flash backs . Hope it doesn't come to that . Those who have been through war would never think of doing the horrible things that are going on but could it be a reason to take your guns.
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I think what you will find, despite the strange media coverage is that the vast, vast majority of veterans who served in the recent wars never saw any combat at all. You are talking about 10% of the those that actually deployed. Those that actually deployed you are talking about 3 million people, of those that saw combat the vast majority of those only saw a little. So what we are talking a about is 1/10 of 1% of the population of the US.

There have been shooting events with veterans. Dallas, Baton Rouge, Ft. Hood, Ft. Hood again are probably the most notable examples. Of all four only two had deployed and only one was an actual combat veteran. Three were on drugs and one was an Islamic terrorist and two were domestic terrorists.
 
MTT
No matter what the percentage is could it be a problem for them?
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Certainly. I am just pointing out that a lot more people claim to have served in the military and in combat than actually did. Often times the people who make these false claims are apt to use them as an excuse for their bad behavior, or the media makes it up and uses it for them. Random violence by actual combat veterans is pretty rare, mostly because they know the actual effects of real violence first hand and don't ever want to see it again.
 
I’m a vet, not trying to disparage or throw shade at anyone’s service. But there’s lots of veterans gaming the system... if you approach them in the right way, they will brag about getting over on the VA and even offer tips on how to do it. I often get asked by veteran friends about why I’m not hopping on the gravy train of undeserved compensation. I often wonder if these people are going to have problems if in the future if gun laws change.
 
I’m a vet, not trying to disparage or throw shade at anyone’s service. But there’s lots of veterans gaming the system... if you approach them in the right way, they will brag about getting over on the VA and even offer tips on how to do it. I often get asked by veteran friends about why I’m not hopping on the gravy train of undeserved compensation. I often wonder if these people are going to have problems if in the future if gun laws change.
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I would like to know the "gravy train of undeserved compensation" you speak of. I am a vet and currently surrounded by vets where I work and don't know of a single one of them receiving undeserved compensation none the less ask why I don't jump on the "gravy train".

As for the toxicology reports, the only recent I read was for the Ohio shooter. He had cocaine, alcohol and the prescription drug Xanax (I believe it's a type of benzodiazepine not an SSRI) in his system. As for antidepressants, in particular SSRIs, they are a good tool for many people but I also believe it's over prescribed, especially to the very young. I have not heard what the other shooters had in their system.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2019/08/15/dayton-shooting-connor-betts-high-drugs-2-victims-hit-police/2022659001/
 
I would like to know the "gravy train of undeserved compensation" you speak of. I am a vet and currently surrounded by vets where I work and don't know of a single one of them receiving undeserved compensation none the less ask why I don't jump on the "gravy train".
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There is a perception due to the high rate of "disabled" veterans coming out of the post 9/11 service era that some of these disabilities are in fact manufactured fiction to receive a disability check and other benefits. The rates are much higher than ever before and a large numbers are for PTSD, often from people who seemingly never had a reason to "catch" it.

That there is some truth to this perception there is no doubt. People have defrauded the VA since it was founded. PTSD can't really be proven medically either which makes it so handy to defraud the VA. The question is to what degree.

Bringing it back around this brings up the issue of whether people who claim PTSD may have their rights infringed at some point in the future due to their reported condition. Much like the people who got scripts for medical marijuana and then found out later that this would prevent them from purchasing guns from dealers (although this was more a point of ignorance).

To make the issue more complex I can tell you through personal contacts with people that I served with that there are veterans who are concerned about their rights and simply won't go near the VA or any other treatment facility over concerns of future infringement. So ironically you have people who are very likely not suffering any kind of disability getting a check and people who maybe have emotional problems connected to their service not getting any help at all. Then there is a third class of people who due to the fraudsters have to wait for forever for help from the VA when they seek it. For the fraudster it doesn't matter how long he waits because he doesn't actually need help. Meanwhile people are dying due to lack of medical care because the system is so jammed up. It's a pretty aggravating nightmare for a lot of vets.

I have seen cases of all three personally and I guess Rick has as well, so these certainly aren't isolated cases.
 
I don’t see where this perception of veterans are manufacturing a disability stems from. It would have to be a large number for fellow vets and the public to get a perception of this and I don’t see it, especially where I am. The VA is jammed up because much of it is due to huge bureaucracy and corruption. They will let you die while waiting for treatment and hide the fact. Remember AZ VA hiding that vets were dying while waiting for treatment? Also, the any VA whistle blowers still to this day are retaliated against.

As for vet being concerned of losing their rights by seeking treatment from the VA, there is some truth to this. If you receive VA disability and are assigned a fiduciary (anyone who manages your benefits) you are reported to NICS as being incompetent thus; losing your 2nd amendment rights. It can be from bad mental health, bad eye site, unable to read, etc., does not matter. Thank Obama for this. He also tried to do the same to SSI recipients.
 
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I receive most of my health care from the VA, and I have done so since my former, private primary care doctor retired more than 20 years ago. Since in recent years I have had more medical issues than I would have preferred, I've spent a lot of time in waiting areas at the local VA hospital. A number of years ago I overheard a couple of other veterans talking, and one of them was telling the other (and anyone else within about a half-mile radius) that he could get anyone a disability rating, it was just a matter of knowing how to fill out the paperwork.

No, I didn't ask him how to do it.
 
As for vet being concerned of losing their rights by seeking treatment from the VA, there is some truth to this. If you receive VA disability and are assigned a fiduciary (anyone who manages your benefits) you are reported to NICS as being incompetent thus; losing your 2nd amendment rights. It can be from bad mental health, bad eye site, unable to read, etc., does not matter.
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Correct and that is where the worry stems from. Now that people are losing their rights for being "red flagged" it would be easy to extend that to veterans, as veterans are already losing their rights whereas the rest of the population is not. Seems to me, if anything at all I'd rather have it the other way around but I'm not in charge.
 
It isn't just anti-depressants, but a variety of mood altering drugs that have been claimed to be the fuel behind mass shootings. When you look at the articles that claim a connection, they note that X number of shooters were on the drugs or had been on the drugs at one time. The problem is, LOTS of people have been on the same drugs without such problems, millions of people.

Another way to look at it is that the people who have been prescribed said drugs already had mental health issues and doctors thought needed said drugs, right?

It is one thing to point out a possible correlation. It is a hugely different thing to identify a causation, particularly when so many factors are involved.
 
The problem is, LOTS of people have been on the same drugs without such problems, millions of people.
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In the recent past a hundred million people smoked every year, only tens of thousands got lung cancer, of those only half smoked. Does that mean that cigarettes don't cause lung cancer? I'm all for some skepticism but that dog don't hunt.

Another huge problem with your analysis is that you are only looking at mass shootings. Practically all murders are committed by people that use drugs regularly.

Another way to look at it is that the people who have been prescribed said drugs already had mental health issues and doctors thought needed said drugs, right?
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Sometimes. We are currently seeing a huge rise in both recreational drug use and mass shootings. Most often the shooter has now has no diagnosed underlying mental condition but loves their weed, meth and Xanax. That doesn't mean they weren't mentally ill, they just were not diagnosed.
 
In my time we were given our compensation rating on ETS . Never used the VA Healthcare while I was employed with private insurance , they would call asking me to come in for different screenings . I promised I would when I retired . I kept my promise still have my private but the VA Healthcare I'm receiving is much better then my private . I see my family doctor once a year for yearly checkup or a cold only because it's closer to home . VA is screening me closely for parasites , AO and things that happened 50+ years ago . I'm getting excellent care at the VA and I have the feeling I'm back with my brothers again , hard to explain
 
A number of years ago I overheard a couple of other veterans talking, and one of them was telling the other (and anyone else within about a half-mile radius) that he could get anyone a disability rating, it was just a matter of knowing how to fill out the paperwork.
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Not saying it didn't happen but when I retired from the USN in 1993, I had to go to a local VA and went thru 3 days of tests and interviews to determine my 'disability', if any. It was not at my request, I was not claiming anything but part of the required retirement checkout process...

BTW-I am classified "Zero% Disabled"..kinda a hoot..means I can get free Rx and have a bed at any local sailors and soldiers home..if I need it...
 
In the recent past a hundred million people smoked every year, only tens of thousands got lung cancer, of those only half smoked. Does that mean that cigarettes don't cause lung cancer? I'm all for some skepticism but that dog don't hunt.
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Since the discussion is on mass shooters, let me know when 10s of thousands of mass shootings occur and we can reexamine the issue of your hunting dog.

Another huge problem with your analysis is that you are only looking at mass shootings.
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This is the exact topic of discussion, mass shootings/shooters.
 
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