Another silly question on "used" BP pistols
- Thread starter okiefarmer
- Start date
Fingers McGee
New member
Precut wool felt wads can be gotten from Buffalo Arms. Lubed $.03 each in bags of 500 & dry $.02 each in bags of 1000. That for .36 and .44 cal sizes. Save a lot of wear and tear on the arm.
FM
FM
robhof
Thanks Smokin Gun for the pufflon info. Awhile back I was at the range and someone near me was shooting one of those fancy benchrest rifles with sub MOA. We got to talking and he was telling me that he uses puffon as filler in all his ammo and it has improved the groups in all his guns. I didn't get his name, but wrote down the puffon and looked online and only found puffins!!! I got a great deal on GB looking through b/p revolvers; someone was selling a stainless 44 with fuzzy pics. I got it for $200 including shipping. It was an unfired ROA. Even with the fuzzy pic's, I knew what it was and waited to bid on the last minute. The seller said that it was his dad's and he knew nothing about it. He could have got $200 from a pawn shop, but he made a long time ROA admirer very happy.
Thanks Smokin Gun for the pufflon info. Awhile back I was at the range and someone near me was shooting one of those fancy benchrest rifles with sub MOA. We got to talking and he was telling me that he uses puffon as filler in all his ammo and it has improved the groups in all his guns. I didn't get his name, but wrote down the puffon and looked online and only found puffins!!! I got a great deal on GB looking through b/p revolvers; someone was selling a stainless 44 with fuzzy pics. I got it for $200 including shipping. It was an unfired ROA. Even with the fuzzy pic's, I knew what it was and waited to bid on the last minute. The seller said that it was his dad's and he knew nothing about it. He could have got $200 from a pawn shop, but he made a long time ROA admirer very happy.
Thanks for the warning Doc. The key word is recent. The weather stripping I'm using is from many years ago. I had read the sticky about the danger of synthetic fibers, so I lite a sample and it smolders but doesn't melt.
The reason I don't buy pre-made is because I have a wealth of junk around the house which I might as well use for something.
The reason I don't buy pre-made is because I have a wealth of junk around the house which I might as well use for something.
I just wanted to show everyone the auction I was talking about.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=146083616
The original auction I won was given to someone else who had a late payment and I was allowed to choose this one instead. In the auction it says "Gun looks new and unfired." It is in very good condition on the outside, on the inside the teeth on the cylinder are all chewed up, and at the bottom of the hammer is something I think would act like a cam that is almost completely worn off. This gun has seen a lot of use. I called the seller today and he still insisted that the gun was unfired and proceeded to tell me how much experience he had buying and selling hundreds of guns. When I told him that I had taken the gun apart to look inside, he screamed "I DIDN'T TELL YOU TO TAKE IT APART", and then threatened to not give me a refund if the gun came back to him in non-working condition. Either this guy isn't too smart or he's very dishonest because it isn't very hard to tell that the gun was well used even without taking it apart. The gun will be on it's way back to the seller tomorrow, we'll see how honest this person is.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=146083616
The original auction I won was given to someone else who had a late payment and I was allowed to choose this one instead. In the auction it says "Gun looks new and unfired." It is in very good condition on the outside, on the inside the teeth on the cylinder are all chewed up, and at the bottom of the hammer is something I think would act like a cam that is almost completely worn off. This gun has seen a lot of use. I called the seller today and he still insisted that the gun was unfired and proceeded to tell me how much experience he had buying and selling hundreds of guns. When I told him that I had taken the gun apart to look inside, he screamed "I DIDN'T TELL YOU TO TAKE IT APART", and then threatened to not give me a refund if the gun came back to him in non-working condition. Either this guy isn't too smart or he's very dishonest because it isn't very hard to tell that the gun was well used even without taking it apart. The gun will be on it's way back to the seller tomorrow, we'll see how honest this person is.
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As Ronald Reagan alway said, "Well...."
The seller has 312 feedbacks with an A+ rating. It is difficult to believe that:
1. He could not tell that the pistol was not in the condition he described
2. That he would describe the condition of a pistol when he really did not know the condition.
3. That he would have a problem with the inspection of the pistol which has become pretty much accepted.
4. That your inspection was pretty much a simple field strip (I am ASSUMING here) which is part of every day operation of the pistol and can be done without harming the pistol.
In the seller's defense, in the first 30 feedbacks, I found no other BP revolvers.
I have over 500 feedbacks on eBay with a 100% positive rating. I often sell stuff I know nothing about, but I always say so and it always goes cheap because I can not verify the condition.
"myankey" is a good name to treat with a healthier respect than other GBsellers I have dealt with.
The seller has 312 feedbacks with an A+ rating. It is difficult to believe that:
1. He could not tell that the pistol was not in the condition he described
2. That he would describe the condition of a pistol when he really did not know the condition.
3. That he would have a problem with the inspection of the pistol which has become pretty much accepted.
4. That your inspection was pretty much a simple field strip (I am ASSUMING here) which is part of every day operation of the pistol and can be done without harming the pistol.
In the seller's defense, in the first 30 feedbacks, I found no other BP revolvers.
I have over 500 feedbacks on eBay with a 100% positive rating. I often sell stuff I know nothing about, but I always say so and it always goes cheap because I can not verify the condition.
"myankey" is a good name to treat with a healthier respect than other GBsellers I have dealt with.
I just took a look at the Gunbroker ad. This is EXACTLY the kind of ad I would avoid at all costs.
First, he specifies the item is to be sold "AS IS. No refunds or exchanges." This position is indefensible when dealing with used firearms. Any, and I mean ANY honest dealer will not only agree to an inspection period, he'll insist on it to protect himself.
The first rule about buying guns on the internet:
NEVER, EVER BUY A GUN UNSEEN WITHOUT A MINIMUM 3 DAY INSPECTION PERIOD WITH A MONEY BACK NO-QUESTIONS-ASKED GUARANTEE. NEVER.
Second, he states the gun looks (emphasis is mine) new and unfired. If you're buying the gun for appearance only, that's just fine. But if you want it to actually work, the word "looks" is a big red flag; the fact that it only looks good means, by default, that it doesn't work good.
Finally, the caliber is mis-stated. There's no excuse for that. I don't care how many guns you claim you've sold, if you don't know the caliber, you don't know what you're talking about. Doc, you may have sold things you didn't know anything about, but you admitted it up front. This guy not only didn't admit it, he still claims he's an expert.
The A+ rating and 312 positive feedbacks is the only plus in the ad. I have to wonder how he earned them given the obvious clues to his dishonesty in the ad.
There are plenty of reasons in this ad to stay away from this seller. In the end, myankee took advantage of Sabot and should take the gun back, but frankly I'm hard pressed to say Sabot wasn't warned.
First, he specifies the item is to be sold "AS IS. No refunds or exchanges." This position is indefensible when dealing with used firearms. Any, and I mean ANY honest dealer will not only agree to an inspection period, he'll insist on it to protect himself.
The first rule about buying guns on the internet:
NEVER, EVER BUY A GUN UNSEEN WITHOUT A MINIMUM 3 DAY INSPECTION PERIOD WITH A MONEY BACK NO-QUESTIONS-ASKED GUARANTEE. NEVER.
Second, he states the gun looks (emphasis is mine) new and unfired. If you're buying the gun for appearance only, that's just fine. But if you want it to actually work, the word "looks" is a big red flag; the fact that it only looks good means, by default, that it doesn't work good.
Finally, the caliber is mis-stated. There's no excuse for that. I don't care how many guns you claim you've sold, if you don't know the caliber, you don't know what you're talking about. Doc, you may have sold things you didn't know anything about, but you admitted it up front. This guy not only didn't admit it, he still claims he's an expert.
The A+ rating and 312 positive feedbacks is the only plus in the ad. I have to wonder how he earned them given the obvious clues to his dishonesty in the ad.
There are plenty of reasons in this ad to stay away from this seller. In the end, myankee took advantage of Sabot and should take the gun back, but frankly I'm hard pressed to say Sabot wasn't warned.
I thought I was fairly safe with this seller who had an A+ rating and 312 positive feedbacks. Where it is specified the item is to be sold "AS IS. No refunds or exchanges", I didn't even see that until you brought it to my attention. Yes, I was warned, but I didn't see the flags. I guess this will just have to be an expensive learning experience. The gun is now on it's journey back to the seller, I probably won't get a refund either.
I thought if I shared this experience with everyone then the burn wouldn't hurt so bad.
I thought if I shared this experience with everyone then the burn wouldn't hurt so bad.
Gaucho Gringo
New member
In all my buying and selling on the internet, I have learned to be wary of people who misspell common words repeatedly and make repeated errors in grammar. I am not trying to be an elitist and a misspelled word or mistake in grammar once in a while doesn't raise any flags with me but repeated instances does. Also I am wary of people posting feedback that make personal attacks on the seller or buyer. A few years back when I was selling used high end stereo equipment from the 60's & 70's, I could almost tell which buyers were problematic by their emails with questions on what I was selling. It wasn't 100% but it was maybe in the 90-95% range.The majority of the buyers were nice and easy to deal with but there was that certain percentage of problem buyers. The same thing holds true for sellers. If I don't feel comfortable with the seller, I just walk away. I sold over 3,000 items on Ebay in a period of 4 years. I am going to start selling off a lot of my personal equipment due to fact that my wife and I are going to move into a smaller house now that the kids are grown. It is going to be back to the Ebay grind.
I sent the gun back and the seller received it Saturday.
He kept my money and relisted the item.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=148391066
Is there any recourse I can take?
He kept my money and relisted the item.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=148391066
Is there any recourse I can take?
If he only received it back on Saturday then how do you know that he's keeping your money?
He needs to be given a reasonable amount of time to return the money.
Did he state in writing that he wouldn"t return your money?
I agree with mykeal that you should contact Gunbroker as soon as possible since they do offer fraud protection and can investigate and suspend his account if necessary.
The fact the he has relisted the returned item means that he received it back from you undamaged.
And many states have laws protecting the consumer when buying mail order products and which also gives buyers the right to return goods for a refund.
You should have taken pictures of the wear and damage that the gun had when you took it apart to prove that it wasn't in new condition. Then he can't dispute your claim about the condition of the gun.
Gunbroker gives you the right to return it for any reason anyway. Exhaust your avenues to complain through them first.
He needs to be given a reasonable amount of time to return the money.
Did he state in writing that he wouldn"t return your money?
I agree with mykeal that you should contact Gunbroker as soon as possible since they do offer fraud protection and can investigate and suspend his account if necessary.
The fact the he has relisted the returned item means that he received it back from you undamaged.
And many states have laws protecting the consumer when buying mail order products and which also gives buyers the right to return goods for a refund.
You should have taken pictures of the wear and damage that the gun had when you took it apart to prove that it wasn't in new condition. Then he can't dispute your claim about the condition of the gun.
Gunbroker gives you the right to return it for any reason anyway. Exhaust your avenues to complain through them first.
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From the way this guy had talked to me on the phone, literally yelling at me, and his behavior of not responding to my e-mails, I thought he was going to burn me for sure. And when I saw the gun re-listed without hearing anything from him about a sending a refund I got suspicious.
I once had a supervisor who used to say... "The less you are told, the more you assume". Communication is seriously important in a business transaction.
I received a reply to an e-mail today, he said the check is in the mail. I guess I jumped the gun you could say. Hopefully it won't be another surprise.
I once had a supervisor who used to say... "The less you are told, the more you assume". Communication is seriously important in a business transaction.
I received a reply to an e-mail today, he said the check is in the mail. I guess I jumped the gun you could say. Hopefully it won't be another surprise.
Learning experience (Almost entirely my opinion)
I check pistols on Gunbroker about once every three days.
I generally have a list of pistols or parts I am watching. I stick to 1849, 51, 58, 60, 61, 62, & 63 & ROA.
My reaction to the pistols this guy has for sale is almost always that his starting prices are a little high. I have not bothered to check how his sales are going to see if others agree with me. But I frequently do not watch his pistols because of the high opening price. There is another guy who sells pistols he has taken apart, selling the parts for more than the value of the whole pistol. I am not talking about "Old Western Scrounger" (Val Forgett III). He keeps his opening prices low and allows the market to determine value. Ships pretty slow but packages well.
As a philosophical point, an "as-is" auction on a site like gunbroker is a tiny bit different from an "as-is" face to face transaction. It places a very high threshold on the seller to completely and accurately describe the condition, because that condition is the premise for the sale. If a buyer is agreeing to an as-is sale, then the item, as described must be essentially identical to the item, as received.
I have been selling and buying on eBay since 1996. I have a 100% positive feedback rating. I never describe anything as "as-is" because it is an open invitation for conflict. I simply cannot describe any item well enough that I could feel that I have done justice to the description. I always give a no-questions-asked guarantee. I have only been questioned one time. I returned the money and never got the item (A Zee scale railroad car) back. Its a chance you take.
The seller that Sabot is speaking of easily has enough experience to know that when he says a pistol "looks unfired" that includes the "look" of the bore and the chambers. He also knows that "Looks unfired" carries with it an unspoken assumption that buyer will expect that the pistol will also operate as though it were unfired. The ad may not say that, but both parties know it.
It was not just an inadvertent omission to fail to describe the pistol as not fully functional. It was a clever ploy verging on blatant dishonesty.
I, personally, would not do business this way.
I check pistols on Gunbroker about once every three days.
I generally have a list of pistols or parts I am watching. I stick to 1849, 51, 58, 60, 61, 62, & 63 & ROA.
My reaction to the pistols this guy has for sale is almost always that his starting prices are a little high. I have not bothered to check how his sales are going to see if others agree with me. But I frequently do not watch his pistols because of the high opening price. There is another guy who sells pistols he has taken apart, selling the parts for more than the value of the whole pistol. I am not talking about "Old Western Scrounger" (Val Forgett III). He keeps his opening prices low and allows the market to determine value. Ships pretty slow but packages well.
As a philosophical point, an "as-is" auction on a site like gunbroker is a tiny bit different from an "as-is" face to face transaction. It places a very high threshold on the seller to completely and accurately describe the condition, because that condition is the premise for the sale. If a buyer is agreeing to an as-is sale, then the item, as described must be essentially identical to the item, as received.
I have been selling and buying on eBay since 1996. I have a 100% positive feedback rating. I never describe anything as "as-is" because it is an open invitation for conflict. I simply cannot describe any item well enough that I could feel that I have done justice to the description. I always give a no-questions-asked guarantee. I have only been questioned one time. I returned the money and never got the item (A Zee scale railroad car) back. Its a chance you take.
The seller that Sabot is speaking of easily has enough experience to know that when he says a pistol "looks unfired" that includes the "look" of the bore and the chambers. He also knows that "Looks unfired" carries with it an unspoken assumption that buyer will expect that the pistol will also operate as though it were unfired. The ad may not say that, but both parties know it.
It was not just an inadvertent omission to fail to describe the pistol as not fully functional. It was a clever ploy verging on blatant dishonesty.
I, personally, would not do business this way.
madcratebuilder
New member
Small world, I just bought a gun from the same guy.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=146817970
He described it as unfired but the photo clearly shows the corrosion on it. I'm going to refinish anyway so I didn't care. He cold blued it right over the rust. I have it striped and mostly down to smooth steel. If I had bought this based on his description I would be very ****** off.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=146817970
He described it as unfired but the photo clearly shows the corrosion on it. I'm going to refinish anyway so I didn't care. He cold blued it right over the rust. I have it striped and mostly down to smooth steel. If I had bought this based on his description I would be very ****** off.
As Ronald Reagan alway said, "Well...."
After I made my last post, I went to GB and put a bunch of his auctions on watch, just to satisfy my curiosity. He has a bunch of revolvers for sale. Most of them appear to be in less than average condition. Most of them seem to me to be priced higher than is warranted. (I am watching them to find out how many of them sell and that the price is for the sales.)
After I made my last post, I went to GB and put a bunch of his auctions on watch, just to satisfy my curiosity. He has a bunch of revolvers for sale. Most of them appear to be in less than average condition. Most of them seem to me to be priced higher than is warranted. (I am watching them to find out how many of them sell and that the price is for the sales.)
After he received the gun back from me it was immediately put up for auction. "Gun looks new and unfired" has been removed from the description and the price has been reduced from $199.00 to $175.00. I would assume the gun in the condition that I received it in was not repaired and is very dangerous, the cylinder bolt does not work and the cylinder does not line up with the barrel.