Spats McGee
Administrator
This is not a thread on KY Castle Doctrine. It's a thread on a TX shooting, so there's no need to roll off into KY law.I think you need to review how KY implements Castle doctrine....
This is not a thread on KY Castle Doctrine. It's a thread on a TX shooting, so there's no need to roll off into KY law.I think you need to review how KY implements Castle doctrine....
I'm pretty certain Texas requires all homicides to be presented to a grand jury, so the question will be whether or not the grand jury hands down an indictment.
He has the right to order the trespasser to leave the property and to use force in doing so.
The other side to that is that despite having gone inside after telling the EX to leave the property, the EX refused to leave and hence was trespassing and a belligerent trespasser at that. He has the right to order the trespasser to leave the property and to use force in doing so.
I don't think anyone but law enforcement can use force to trespass someone. Correct me if I'm wrong.
The family of the victim have already launched a mountain of civil suits, my guess is they already know this is probably not going their way in a criminal trial. I don't think it will weaken the castle doctrine, but it certainly will likely put the notion of proportionality of action vs the idea of "perceived threat" under scrutiny. That's a pot of molasses and more people are likely going to die as the boundaries are pushed out IMO.
the EX refused to leave and hence was trespassing and a belligerent trespasser at that. He has the right to order the trespasser to leave the property and to use force in doing so.
Texas Penal Code - PENAL § 9.41. Protection of One's Own Property
(a) A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property.
(b) The actor's belief under Subsection (a)(2) that the deadly force was immediately necessary as described by that subdivision is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:
(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the deadly force was used:
(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;
(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or
(C) was committing or attempting to commit an offense described by Subsection (a)(2)(B);
(2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and
(3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.
(c) A person who has a right to be present at the location where the deadly force is used, who has not provoked the person against whom the deadly force is used, and who is not engaged in criminal activity at the time the deadly force is used is not required to retreat before using deadly force as described by this section.
(d) For purposes of Subsection (a)(2), in determining whether an actor described by Subsection (c) reasonably believed that the use of deadly force was necessary, a finder of fact may not consider whether the actor failed to retreat.
(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;
(2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used;
there is going to be a lot of legal hair splitting in this one at least from what I can see from my chair.
This shooting, as far as I can tell, has nothing to do with Castle Doctrine.... Castle Doctrine...
Does Texas not recognize the concept of curtilage?John KSa said:This shooting, as far as I can tell, has nothing to do with Castle Doctrine.
Castle Doctrine in TX applies when someone:
Unlawfully and with force enters or attempts to enter your habitation, vehicle, or work-place;
or
Attempts to remove you, by force, from your habitation, vehicle, or work-place;
or
Was committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.
There was no attempt to enter any house, workplace or vehicle.
There was no attempt to remove the homeowner by force.
There was no attempt to commit any of the crimes listed in the last bullet.
There was no attempt to remove the homeowner by force.
Were we watching the same video ? After being ordered to leave, (by the armed homeowner) the guy picked up the homeowner from his front porch and moved him into the yard.
sfwusc said:If the porch is consider the home then it is a good shoot.
...
Texas law seems to allow use of deadly force if someone removes or attempts to remove you from your home. If the porch is the home, then the video clearly shows the deceased doing that.
Now, should the shooter have killed him? That is a whole another discussion. I think it is clear cut he had the legal right to do it.