Another School Shooting

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And on the janitor, I heard on a local radio station, a man claiming to have been said janitor, he told how he rushed out of the area when he heard who the shooter was looking for and found the teacher and drove out of dodge with the actual "target" of this senseless violence.
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How did the janitor know who the shooter's target would be?
 
jtmckinney said:
This report starts with;

"An armed deputy sheriff at Arapahoe High School in Colorado likely prevented a school shooting there from being worse, officials say, ending the episode in less than two minutes"
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There is some information that I did not see yesterday and I thought a good report for our side.
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That needs to be confirmed. I have seen two news reports with response times mentioned. One said five minutes, the other said twenty minutes.

Let's not forget that the first responders arrived at Sandy Hook approximately three minutes after the first 9-1-1 call ... and then they diddled around outside for another five-plus minutes before effecting entry into the school.

In both incidents, the shooter was seen by staff. If staff had been armed, both incidents could have been ended much quicker and probably with fewer casualties.
 
steve4102 said:
How did the janitor know who the shooter's target would be?
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The same way the teacher knew he was being targeted. This kid had a plan in motion and was out for revenge against the debate team couch after having an issue on the team, as being reported by local media and the sheriff.
 
Aguila Blanca said:
That needs to be confirmed. I have seen two news reports with response times mentioned. One said five minutes, the other said twenty minutes.

Let's not forget that the first responders arrived at Sandy Hook approximately three minutes after the first 9-1-1 call ... and then they diddled around outside for another five-plus minutes before effecting entry into the school.

In both incidents, the shooter was seen by staff. If staff had been armed, both incidents could have been ended much quicker and probably with fewer casualties.
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Here you go, farther down speaks about the SRO you question

http://kdvr.com/2013/12/14/sheriff-arapahoe-high-school-shooter-was-bent-on-hurting-many-people/

" An armed school resource officer was talking to school administrators down the hall from the library, police said. Upon hearing a commotion and, soon after, gunshots, the SRO and several other adults raced to the library, Robinson said.Upon hearing the SRO enter, Pierson realized he was cornered, Robinson said. The shooter then reportedly turned his gun on himself.“We believe that the response from the *school resource officer … was absolutely critical to the fact that we did not have additional injury and/or death in this particular matter,” Robinson said."

Entire event is reported to have taken 80 seconds and was mostly captured on the schools video cameras to confirm time of event.
 
The fast arrival of the law is obviously a good thing but it is not really a plus for gun rights. I applaud the fast response of the law and the change in active shooter procedures.

However, those changes are arguments that are used against arming teachers or allowing carrying. The police will get there quickly when the risk is reported or detected on cameras. However, as I pointed out in my testimony to the TX State House (as others did) the first 20 to 30 may be sacrificed to the shooter in most cases.
 
balyon85 said:
The same way the teacher knew he was being targeted. This kid had a plan in motion and was out for revenge against the debate team couch after having an issue on the team, as being reported by local media and the sheriff.
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So, if he had a "plan" for revenge and "everybody" knew about it, how did he get as far as he did?

Ya wudda thought someone would have made some kind of attempt to nip this in the Bud.
 
steve4102 said:
So, if he had a "plan" for revenge and "everybody" knew about it, how did he get as far as he did?

Ya wudda thought someone would have made some kind of attempt to nip this in the Bud.
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You'd have thought, one report writes as early as September he had made threats towards the teacher he was targeting.
 
csmsss said:
Two lives lost, over getting kicked off the school debating team. Grotesque.
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Only the shooter is dead at this time, the victim. Claire Davis is in a coma and listed as stable but critical last I saw this morning. Lets hold out hope she and pull through this shameless act over something petty as rejection.
 
My understanding of this incident is that the school resource officer (read: armed good guy on location) cornered the nut job in the library. Seeing no way out, the coward decided to to take his own life rather than take responsibility for what he did.

In other words, good guy with a gun stops bad guy with a gun. And a big ole "No Guns" sign did nothing to prevent anything. Unfortunately, this fact is largely ignored, or pushed way down in the article in most news reports.

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_2...l-shooting-sheriffs-office-interview-hundreds

Pierson fired a total of five times and ignited a Molotov cocktail that set ablaze three bookshelves in the library before turning the gun on himself. Police found his body in a corner of the room. By then, Murphy and a janitor had left the building.

The quick actions of a deputy sheriff working as the school's resource officer and an unarmed security guard undoubtedly saved lives, Robinson said. They immediately dashed from the cafeteria down a long hallway to the library while yelling for students to get down and get back.
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This is likely the most you'll read about it. There's a big lapse of information about what he was firing at in the Library, why he threw a molotov cocktail, and why he turned the gun on himself.
 
Like most of these there are those that say it was a hoax.
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Yes, and unless they've got concrete proof, such an allegation is irresponsible and in very poor taste.

Notice the rhetoric from the "disinfo" site:

He is surely a crisis actor, faking the story for public consumption, especially in Zionist-controlled anti-gun Colorado.
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They are not worth reading.
 
I can't find the article I read earlier about how officials (including the governor of Colorado) are "mystified" by the fact that Colorado's strict new gun laws didn't prevent the incident, but here's one that touches on it:

http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/colorado-high-school-shooting-motive-at-heart-of-investigation-1

[Sheriff]Robinson said at a news conference that the teen bought the pump-action shotgun legally Dec. 6 at a local store.

Anyone over 18 is allowed to buy a shotgun in Colorado; only those over 21 can legally buy a handgun.
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Only the shooter is dead at this time, the victim. Claire Davis is in a coma and listed as stable but critical last I saw this morning. Lets hold out hope she and pull through this shameless act over something petty as rejection.
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My mistake.
 
Arapahoe School Shooting was a Mass Shooting Stopped Early

There is another thread about this, I thought this discussion warranted a different thread but if not I understand if they're merged.

We've probably all heard of the Arapahoe school shooting at this point. An 18 year old student legally bought a pump action shotgun, 125 rounds of ammunition, and assaulted his school. He was armed with the gun and the ammo worn in two bandoliers across his chest, as well as 3 molotov cocktails and a machete.

The student went after a teacher, but the teacher left the school in an attempt to draw him away. The shooter then shot another girl and turned the gun on himself. There was a lot of speculation that the shooter shot himself because his target was gone.

Now reports are coming out that an armed resource officer made his way to the shooter in roughly 80 seconds and confronted him, causing the shooter to shoot himself. On examination of the shooter's body were 5 room numbers written on his arm along with latin text meaning "the dice has been cast".

Thanks to the bravery of the resource officer and the new tactics of advancing immediately to an active shooter, only the shooter is dead with the victim in stable but critical condition.

It turns out that it's easy to say that people who carry guns don't stop shooting because people aren't allowed to bring their guns there! This was a very clear case of a mass shooting stopped by a "good guy with a gun". The good guy in this case didn't even fire his gun. Simply being confronted by force made the shooter give up because he wasn't looking for a fight. He was there to inflict damage on easy targets and decided to take his own life when confronted by somebody who could stop him.

I hate that shooting events make me immediately want to jump on politics now. I feel that I have become cynical in wanting to keep my rights. I do feel that this tragedy is important because the good guy stopped the shooting before 5 more classrooms could be shot up and the school burned down with molotov cocktails. I think it proves our point that no amount of gun control could have stopped it from happening, but allowing the law abiding citizens to protect themselves ended the tragedy early. The student legally bought the shotgun himself and walked into the school with it in full view, making no attempt to cover up anything on his person. He met no obstacles. In this case, the gun free zone truly was nothing more than a sign that only holds power over the good people that follow it because it's the law.

Getting off my soapbox, here are a few articles.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/officia...-to-attack-at-least-five-areas-of-the-school/

http://news.yahoo.com/student-offer...olorado-s-arapahoe-high-school-154204682.html The student giving the account says the teacher crouched at the door with pepper spray in hand... I wonder if at any point she wished she had something more substantial.
 
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Now reports are coming out that an armed resource officer made his way to the shooter in roughly 80 seconds and confronted him, causing the shooter to shoot himself. On examination of the shooter's body were 5 room numbers written on his arm along with latin text meaning "the dice has been cast".
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Wow, you cite articles, but none of which support your claim that the shooter was confronted by the SRO in about 80 seconds who did not actually do anything to the shooter..

By the way, the Latin phrase translates to "The die has been cast."

“We know for a fact that the shooter knew that the deputy was in the immediate area and, while the deputy was containing the shooter, the shooter took his own life,” Robinson said, calling the presence of the deputy, who was working as a school resource officer at the time, “a critical element” in the teen’s decision to take his own life. Robinson believes there would have been more victims had the officer not been at the school at the time.
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http://www.guns.com/2013/12/16/co-s...d-school-resource-officer-sheriff-says-video/

Sorry, but simply being in the area isn't a good basis for claiming the SRO stopped the shooting. It is not a clear case of a mass shooting stopped by a good guy with a gun. The good guy didn't do anything demonstrative with his gun. The shooter undoubtedly expected the SRO to be there anyway BEFORE starting. There are no reports thusfar that there was any direct interaction between the SRO and the shooter during the shooting. That is the bottom line.

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2013/12/arapahoe_high_school_shooting_james_englert.php

http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/14/us/colorado-school-shooting/
And so don't also forget the unarmed security officer and the two unarmed administrators who also "stopped" the shooter by their presence in the school as well, accompanying the SRO.
 
As Glenn pointed out above, this doesn't help our cause. It might reaffirm the need for armed professionals on the payroll, or the case might be an outlier. Armed security has been insufficient (Virginia Tech) or ineffective (Columbine) before.
 
Sorry Doublenaught, I didn't like all the ones I thought I did. I also meant to say "die", stupid typo.

It's funny, there's hardly any emphasis on the fact that there were 4 people. When it is mentioned, it's just as a parenthetical and brushed right over.

I think it does help our case. I don't think it's a case winner, but I think it's something we can point to. Fast, strong response stopped the shooter. Would the shooter have stopped if it was just 4 unarmed men? It's hard to say, but I think it's likely he would have at least tried to shoot. Odds are decent enough that 4 people in a close quarters proximity might be able to attack the shooter since the shooter obviously wasn't going to be Tom Knapp with the pump action shotgun he just bought. How many could have died doing that, though?

We can also point to the Clackamas mall shooting and say that there it wasn't an officer who was on scene first, but a concealed carry permit holder. In both cases, the threat of force or resistance was enough to make the shooter end the shooting. Armed citizens or professionals won't stop every shooting. Now we have a picture that sometimes it works, and that's a starting point. We can say "if there's even a chance that allowing a licensed carrier to carry their gun will stop a shooting and reduce the casualties, we have a responsibility to try."
 
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