Another pros and cons thread: Red dot v. bead on HD pump shotgun

I have zero issues shooting w. both eyes open when using pistol with regular sights. And, I can do this fast. However, my shotgun bead makes this extremely difficult (next to impossible, when switching shoulders and firing from the left side, and then switching again back and forth). Perhaps my bead is crappy. Tiny bolts on the receiver that protect the threads of the rail bolt holes are getting in the way, for one thing. Also, I have to lower my head way down to see the sights, which is uncomfortable, reduces my field of view and makes shooting w. prescription glasses difficult. Do you guys experience any of these issues? Some suggest bringing the stock of the gun up (instead of lowering the head down) -- I don't like that idea because then only part of gun stock is in contact with the body, and the main contact occurs with the color bone. This, imo, isn't an optimal recoil-mitigation approach... Having taken professional classes and spending lots of time dry and live firing, it's still not very easy to aim fast and aim accurately even within the 30 feet home defense distance (it is doable to take a head shot w. a slug from that distance, but I want it to be easier/faster).

I also think that Aimpoint Micro follows the KISS principle: You can leave it on for 5 years without changing batteries (change 'em when new president is elected, and you'll be fine); it is very compact, light, and sturdy -- so shouldn't break or get in the way much, if at all. It ain't as KISSish as the bead, but it's pretty darn close, imo
 
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ezmiraldo said:
I have zero issues shooting w. both eyes open when using pistol with regular sights. And, I can do this fast. However, my shotgun bead makes this extremely difficult (next to impossible, when switching shoulders and firing from the left side, and then switching again back and forth). Perhaps my bead is crappy. Tiny bolts on the receiver that protect the threads of the rail bolt holes are getting in the way, for one thing. Also, I have to lower my head way down to see the sights, which is uncomfortable, reduces my field of view and makes shooting w. prescription glasses difficult. Having taken professional classes and spending lots of time dry and live firing, it's still not very easy to aim fast and aim accurately even within the 30 feet home defense distance (it is doable to take a head shot w. a slug from that distance, but I want it to be easier/faster).

I also think that Aimpoint Micro follows the KISS principle: You can leave it on for 5 years without changing batteries (change 'em when new president is elected, and you'll be fine); it is very compact, light, and sturdy -- so shouldn't break or get in the way much, if at all. It ain't as KISSish as the bead, but it's pretty darn close, imo
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Why would you shoulder your gun to opposite sides quickly in HD situation? Its a shotgun guys. You dont need pinpoiny accuracy in home defense unless you live in a mansion.
 
If you can't see your bead, then you can't see the bad guy, so how is a glow sight gonna help?
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I've conducted enough night ops in the military to know that's not even remotely true. The loss of vision acuity in darkness is gradual, starting with losing fine detail (sights, beads, buttons, etc.) before you will lose the ability to distinguish larger shapes.

Why would you shoulder your gun to opposite sides quickly in HD situation? Its a shotgun guys. You dont need pinpoiny accuracy in home defense unless you live in a mansion.
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I dunno, but maybe because with my favored load the pattern is a whopping 5" diameter circle at 75 feet?
A good possibility exists that the pattern would be somewhat smaller at 30'; the longest single sight line in my house.
As for shouldering to opposite sides, I wonder if it may not be because hanging both shoulders out in the hallway instead of just one might not increase the chances of getting shot.
 
There are always options

Not if it's a Tritium bead
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Well, that was not listed by the OP as an option. Personally, I would prefer tritium to a RedDot or bead. ..... ;)

It was obvious from the start, that the OP leaning toward the RedDot and just needed some input. As usual, I try to address the OP's question and concerns and not Hi-Jack a post or be prejudice in my response. Personally, I would not mount a RedDot on a HD shotgun but I would also not excluded as anyone's option. .... ;)

Which means there will be problems, which is not acceptable for an designated HD weapon
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I suppose if a person has trouble learning how to use high-tech equipment then he should work with simpler methods. Of course it takes time to learn how to properly utilize a RedDot. But give your brain time to program it's use. As in most things, comes down to a matter of trust. ..... :cool:

Be Safe !!!
 
I have zero issues shooting w. both eyes open when using pistol with regular sights. And, I can do this fast. However, my shotgun bead makes this extremely difficult (next to impossible, when switching shoulders and firing from the left side, and then switching again back and forth). Perhaps my bead is crappy. Tiny bolts on the receiver that protect the threads of the rail bolt holes are getting in the way, for one thing. Also, I have to lower my head way down to see the sights, which is uncomfortable, reduces my field of view and makes shooting w. prescription glasses difficult. Do you guys experience any of these issues? Some suggest bringing the stock of the gun up (instead of lowering the head down) -- I don't like that idea because then only part of gun stock is in contact with the body, and the main contact occurs with the color bone. This, imo, isn't an optimal recoil-mitigation approach... Having taken professional classes and spending lots of time dry and live firing, it's still not very easy to aim fast and aim accurately even within the 30 feet home defense distance (it is doable to take a head shot w. a slug from that distance, but I want it to be easier/faster).

I also think that Aimpoint Micro follows the KISS principle: You can leave it on for 5 years without changing batteries (change 'em when new president is elected, and you'll be fine); it is very compact, light, and sturdy -- so shouldn't break or get in the way much, if at all. It ain't as KISSish as the bead, but it's pretty darn close, imo
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Seems to me that you already know what you want and are simply seeing if others support it. If that's the setup you want, go for it.
 
Yes and no, Idek. I'm looking for flaws in my reasoning before I commit to one approach or the other. At this point, I'm leaning towards red dot (or, rather, against the bead :)), but I'm open to going either way...
 
I see another thread coming after this one. Slugs vs Buckshot in a HD Shotgun.

Any reason why you don't want to use buckshot?

I think you need your gun fitted better to you. They make a shim kit that should give you a better field of view.
 
My personal HD/SD shotguns both have ghost ring sights (Moss 590 & Benelli M1). Both are super fast at buckshot ranges AND accurrate at slug distances.

The addition of a weapon mounted light will solve both the problems of target ID AND seeing the sights. As soon as the light goes on, the sights are clearly visible in the backlight.

My former duty Shotgun (Moss 500) had a simple bead and it was easy to see with the light on in any lowlight situation.

All that said...other then cost and the SMALL chance of electronics failure, i dont see a downside to the reddot. Ive not chosen that route because i personally dont see the need. The ghostrings do everything i need a shotgun to do, as fast as i can do them.
 
I see another thread coming after this one. Slugs vs Buckshot in a HD Shotgun.

Any reason why you don't want to use buckshot?
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The OP mentions his perfered load shoots 5" patterns at 25 yards. Sounds like he is using buckshot.

OP...that is an EXTREMELY tight buckshot pattern. Maybe TOO TIGHT for a strictly HD load. As a LE duty load where you might need to stretch range a little it would be fine.

For a HD load id want something that opens up a bit faster. 1" per yard is pretty standard.
 
Youll always be able to see your bead or know where your dang shotgun is pointed if you can identify the person. Lets be real.
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If you are in the dark but they aren't, you won't be able to see your sights.

Sure, you can "point" but that's not what this thread is about, since you can point with no sights at all
 
Synper

If you read my whole post i point out that the norm for buckshot is about 1" per yard. You make reference to 3.5" at 4 yards. Seems pretty standard. Am i missing something?
 
Sharkbite
The OP mentions his perfered load shoots 5" patterns at 25 yards. Sounds like he is using buckshot.

OP...that is an EXTREMELY tight buckshot pattern. Maybe TOO TIGHT for a strictly HD load. As a LE duty load where you might need to stretch range a little it would be fine.

For a HD load id want something that opens up a bit faster. 1" per yard is pretty standard.
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If he said it I didn't see it.

This is what I saw.
Having taken professional classes and spending lots of time dry and live firing, it's still not very easy to aim fast and aim accurately even within the 30 feet home defense distance (it is doable to take a head shot w. a slug from that distance, but I want it to be easier/faster).
Click to expand...

4th point mentioned
I dunno, but maybe because with my favored load the pattern is a whopping 5" diameter circle at 75 feet?
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4thPoint said:
I've conducted enough night ops in the military to know that's not even remotely true. The loss of vision acuity in darkness is gradual, starting with losing fine detail (sights, beads, buttons, etc.) before you will lose the ability to distinguish larger shapes.


I dunno, but maybe because with my favored load the pattern is a whopping 5" diameter circle at 75 feet?
A good possibility exists that the pattern would be somewhat smaller at 30'; the longest single sight line in my house.
As for shouldering to opposite sides, I wonder if it may not be because hanging both shoulders out in the hallway instead of just one might not increase the chances of getting shot.
Click to expand...

I was sayingyou can see your bead as long as you can see and ID your target.
 
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I've had nights in the jungle where that just wasn't the case, triple canopy tends to do that. However, I could still see people silhouetted against the sky. or on the beach, or even behind muzzle flashes.

In regards to patterns at 25yards/75 ft, I can recommend Federal's LE132-00 with FliteControl wads, they do a remarkable job at keeping the pellets together. I'm looking forward to trying out their 1-buck when it becomes readily available in the same product line.
 
Synper

If you read my whole post i point out that the norm for buckshot is about 1" per yard. You make reference to 3.5" at 4 yards. Seems pretty standard.

Am i missing something?
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You're missing the fact I posted data that confirms what you said, and makes the 5" at 25 yds suspect
 
I was sayingyou can see your bead as long as you can see and ID your target.
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Repeating it doesn't mean it's always true.

I can shine a light on a Coon near my chicken coop, but it doesn't illuminate my sights unless it's behind the gun

Any silhouette in my doorway at night that I don't immediately recognize is a likely threat, but I won't be able to see my sights
 
flightcontrol1.jpg


Apparently, it helps when the wad is actually designed to retain the shot for longer distances out the muzzle and to release it gradually.

http://www.combat-shotgun.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=224&sid=900d239d74bf5161e7bf982e8921ffdc Nuthin' like a little testing to dispel old wives tales.

I tested one load that had an 8 FOOT pattern at 12 yards, the complete opposite of what you'd want. It was useless for HD.
 
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