Another pros and cons thread: Red dot v. bead on HD pump shotgun

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ezmiraldo

New member
Yet, another decision I'm torn about. I'm considering switching bead on my Mossberg 500 for Aimpoint Micro (let's leave out discussion of price, because, yeah, that thing is ridiculously expensive -- can get 2 mossbeg 500 for one aimpoint micro). I'm talking about home defense only (sorry forgot to specify this in original post). Here're my preliminary thoughts on pluses and minuses of stock bead v. red-dot:

red dot
 + allows putting stock lower into chest muscle area (and away from collar bone area) when aiming -- which helps mitigate recoil
+ higher cheek riser (that one would need to compensate for the elevated sights) prevents thumb of rear hand from hitting the face/glasses during recoil (I use the ugly but extremely functional magpul sga stock)
+ aiming is faster
+ can keep both eyes open when aiming/firing
- need to compensate for the height of the red dot (hits will be 1-2 inches lower than point of aim) -- especially problematic when shooting behind barriers, since shot can hit barrier and not the threat
- downsides of all optics (hard recoil can shift point of aim; bolts can loosen up; battery can die; glass can break; added bulk/weight; glass produces reflection, which might give away one's position; etc. etc.)

stock bead
 + very sturdy
+ no need to compensate for the height of red dot over bore
+ no need to replace batteries (even when batteries last 5 years)

What's your opinion (if price is not an issue)?
 
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I have a micro red dot on my Mossberg semi (SPX), the red dot sits right atop the front sight so I don't think I lose even a microsecond lining things up once my head hits the cheekpiece. I could easily be wrong as I have not measured it, but I know that at the very least I don't lose anything moving from sunlight to a dim room and shooting.

I suspect that beads work very well, for hunting at least. Not many ducks or geese migrate during the night.
 
It sounds like this 500 you are talking about is a HD shotgun. If that is correct then I'd say go for the Aimpoint if you want. However, if that shotgun gets used as a game-getter then I'd say pass. The only place in the field that a red dot on a shotgun is actually a help instead of a hinderance is on a turkey shotgun.
 
I see no use for me to have a red dot on a HD shotgun. Personally I prefer a fiber optic bead or just some glow paint on the factory bead. Its one of those things that to me it makes no sense in complicating a simple solution.
 
I'd stick with a bead as well.

I don't know if I agree with the "pros" about a red dot being faster, and you can/should use a bead with both eyes open too.
 
How is looking at a red dot faster for target acquisition than using your own 2 eyes?
K.I.S.S. is needed here
 
I'd put a Tritium night sight on the front and not have to worry about dead batteries or other malfunctions for the next 15 years.

There will be no difference in target aquisition times nor accuracy fo HD purposes
 
You know, I came across an interesting sight the other day while surfing the web. I thought it was a pretty cool design and it might fit your needs.

It is called See All Open Sight . It uses no batteries.. Kind of like a red dot, but not really. It looks pretty robust.

Here is the website: https://seeallopensight.com/

Here is a video of a guy reviewing it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_-GPNTxiBo

see-all-open-sight-fiber-optic-open-sight.jpg
 
You point a bead; You superimpose a RedDot.

- downsides of all optics (hard recoil can shift point of aim; bolts can loosen up; battery can die; glass can break; added bulk/weight; glass produces reflection, which might give away one's position; etc. etc.)
Click to expand...
WOW !!
Looks like you worked hard to come up with these negatives, all of which are minor or non-existent. Of the many RedDot types, I have only had one major problem and that was loosing the internal ground connection. Most folks don't like them because they have never taken the time to work with them. In fact, most of the problems are self-inflicted. ..... ;)

How about;
Aiming in the dark, with a bead, is non-existing. You learn to point in a general direction and hope you did well.

Aiming in the dark with a RedDot, Allows you to superimpose the dot over the target and you know the target is yours.

How is looking at a red dot faster for target acquisition than using your own 2 eyes?
Click to expand...
There is nothing faster and more natural than a RedDot types.

I once talked a deer hunter into letting me install a RedDot on his slug-gun. That first year, the rest of the party scoffed at it and he took a buck at 80yds. and hit where he was touching. Do that with a bead. One guy said it was plain luck and he may have been right. .... :confused:

Be Safe !!!
 
If you are shooting at bad guys at 80 yards, you're going to jail. The OP is talking about HD use - more like a few yards at most. the added weight and bulk of a Red Dot at HD distances is a waste of money and can throw any semblance of balance or pointability off. At HD distances, it is simply not needed. Buy some ammo and take a lesson with that money instead.
 
I see no use for a red dot for HD, and I have a red dot sight (Burris) and use it for almost everything, including wingshooting. Something else to have to worry about in an emergency, and hope you remembered to turn it off and not kill the battery the last time.
 
How about;
Aiming in the dark, with a bead, is non-existing. You learn to point in a general direction and hope you did well.
Click to expand...
Not if it's a Tritium bead

Most folks don't like them because they have never taken the time to work with them. In fact, most of the problems are self-inflicted. .....
Click to expand...
Which means there will be problems, which is not acceptable for an designated HD weapon

Don't assume that because some aren't suggesting them for this use that they have no experience in using them
 
How about;
Aiming in the dark, with a bead, is non-existing. You learn to point in a general direction and hope you did well.
Not if it's a Tritium bead
Click to expand...

If you can't see your bead, then you can't see the bad guy, so how is a glow sight gonna help?
 
Seems like the pros in the top tier competitions are all still using beads. I love red dots for 25-100yrd shots. But anything closer I would rather have a bead.
 
If you can't see your bead, then you can't see the bad guy, so how is a glow sight gonna help?
Click to expand...
There are many situations where you can identify and see your target but not be able to clearly see your sights

Not everything takes place in total darkness

If it did, the red dot sight wouldn't offer any advantage either

Let's stick to realistic scenarios

No one should be firing blindly into the darkness
 
Snyper said:
There are many situations where you can identify and see your target but not be able to clearly see your sights

Not everything takes place in total darkness

If it did, the red dot sight wouldn't offer any advantage either

Let's stick to realistic scenarios

No one should be firing blindly into the darkness
Click to expand...
Youll always be able to see your bead or know where your dang shotgun is pointed if you can identify the person. Lets be real.
 
red dot
+ allows putting stock lower into chest muscle area (and away from collar bone area) when aiming -- which helps mitigate recoil
+ higher cheek riser (that one would need to compensate for the elevated sights) prevents thumb of rear hand from hitting the face/glasses during recoil (I use the ugly but extremely functional magpul sga stock)
+ aiming is faster
+ can keep both eyes open when aiming/firing
Click to expand...

You can, actually should, keep both eyes open with a bead also. The first thing most wing shooting coaches will tell you is to keep both eyes open when shooting.
 
I imagine shooting a bad guy in the dark is the same as birds on the fly. Look at the bad guy, shoot the bad guy. No use for special gadgets.

Whoever suggested the K.I.S.S method above is right on track. Leave it bead.
 
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