Another hunter thinks guns are bad

I think some of the older generation see the AR variant weapons as unnecessary and that a military style weapon has no place in the hunting woods.

It sounds like he is using his own thoughts and words in a third person form. Why else would he keep bringing it up? If that is your feelings then man up and put it out there for discussion. If not then let it drop and fade away.
 
Larry um I was replying to a previous comment that someone asked me why I feel the way I do. Secondly I'm 18 years old and personally don't consider myself part of the "older generation" and also I was basing my responses off of 90% of the opinions of the 60-80 year old hunters I've been around my whole life.
 
Skans said:
I know plenty of hunters who enjoy AR's, AK's, and other military style rifles as much as anyone, even older hunters. In fact, it's pretty rare that I encounter a "Fudd" who doesn't like modern semi-auto rifles/carbines. I don't know where all these gun-hating hunters hang out, but not in my neck of the woods.
It's not gun-hating hunters. The problem is hunters (or trap shooters) who won't think outside of their little box. Remember Bill Ruger when the federal AWB was being crafted: "No honest man needs more than ten rounds in his magazine." There are a LOT of hunters who care only about hunting, and their slug gun or bolt action rifle with a capacity of 3 or 5 rounds, since that's all many states allow for hunting.

They can't see that the Second Amendment applies to them, too, and they won't see that the gun banners won't stop if they get rid of AR-15s and AK47s. We know the banners are just playing a game of attrition, chipping away wherever they can. Once the semi-autos are gone, then the banners will come after the bolt actions, and then they'll come after the shotguns.

We know that, but too many head-in-the-sand hunters don't believe that, don't understand that, so they won't help us because they can't see what they have to gain from it.
 
Originally posted by larry1108:

It sounds like he is using his own thoughts and words in a third person form. Why else would he keep bringing it up? If that is your feelings then man up and put it out there for discussion. If not then let it drop and fade away.


Well I brought it up also. Maybe because it's a true statement. Just because it does not mirror your beliefs, does not make it false. I'm 61 years old. I give a rat's backside what kind of firearm you prefer for play or for hunting, and I support your right to own said firearm, regardless of what it is. Many of my generation do, while many, as been said, don't. Same can be said for Sporting Clays shooters, Long Range target shooters and other recreational shooters. What we Hunters don't do generally, is to make a lot of noise. Maybe it's because we've never felt infringed as much as those who prefer those firearms we don't use. Maybe we've been around firearms all our lives and see no real threat, like so many of the internet panics created in the last 8 years. If we did, odds are we would make a lot more noise. Calling us Fudds and saying we don't support you is not helping your cause. Belittling us because we don't feel a need for 4 30 round mags on our belt every time we walk in the woods is not endearing you to us.

TFL has almost 150,000 members, yet the hunting forum is one of the least visited sub-forums and many times days o by without a new thread. This is because most hunters stick to hunting forums. Why? Because many times they are treated with disdain by members of general gun forums. They are called Fudds and told they do not support the 2nd Amendment because they don't own a EBR or feel the need for a mag with a capacity of more than 5 rounds. This is also why hunters are talked down so many times on general gun forums because folks are preaching to the choir. The choir that has this silly notion that hunters do not give a crap about the 2nd Amendment. Truth is, they do give a crap, they just don't like to hang out with folks that talk down to them.
 
They are called Fudds....

To me, a "Fudd" is someone who sees no problem with owning a hunting rifle or o/u s/s shotgun, but HAS a problem with people who own semi-autos, large capacity pistols, military style rifles, etc. Basically, an apologist to the anti-gun lobby who doesn't hesitate to throw groups of gun owners under the bus, so long as no one takes his/her rifle or shotgun.

I have no problem with hunters (I am one), no problem with people who personally don't want this or that kind of gun; but I do have a problem with the type of Fudd I described above. That's an Anti in gun-owner's clothing used as a tool and a poster child for making the rest of us gun owners look like nutty mercenaries for wanting AR's and semi-auto pistols.

Calling us Fudds and saying we don't support you is not helping your cause.

Calling a true Fudd out, the ones who ARE against many types of guns does help our cause. We can't just sit back and ignore those who wish to take our gun rights away, just because they have a bolt action rifle or a side-by-side shotgun, falsely claiming to be pro-second amendment. No, these people who actively side with the gun banners need to be challenged, regardless of whether they own a gun or not. Let's not forget, Dianne Feinstein owns a gun too!
 
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I'm not convinced the "author" even exists.

That Op-Ed reads exactly as if it were penned by a Bloomberg staffer, talking point after talking point is bulleted and highlighted.

The photo of an anonymous female in "hunting clothing" at the front of the piece may very well be window dressing.

I think this entire hit piece is put out by the Gun Ban crowd on a Bloomberg- funded BlogSpot, specifically to identify in the minds of gullible readers that incremental restrictions on gun ownership = "common sense" gun laws.
 
To me, a "Fudd" is someone who sees no problem with owning a hunting rifle or o/u s/s shotgun, but HAS a problem with people who own semi-autos, large capacity pistols, military style rifles, etc. Basically, an apologist to the anti-gun lobby who doesn't hesitate to throw groups of gun owners under the bus, so long as no one takes his/her rifle or shotgun.

But what I regularly see here and many other gun forums is the calling folks "Fudds" when the author knows not the stance of the said "Fudd" on the 2nd Amendment, only that they do not see a legitimate reason to personally own anything else but their standard hunting platforms. These are folks that grew up with and embraced revolvers, 1911s, bolt action rifles and SxS shotguns. To them a Hi-Cap mag was the tube on their Lever action 30-30 that held 7 rounds. The majority of them have hunted deer their whole life and never emptied their firearm at a deer. They are also the ones that sit in the woods and hear a string of 8-10 shots in 3 seconds only to see a wounded deer limp by a few minutes later. Spray and pray in the woods is not something most hunters like to see and is one reason hi-cap mags are frowned upon so much by them. It's not the platform they detest, but the type of hunter that uses it. They are generally not throwing the gun under the bus, but would gladly throw that type of hunter there.

Calling a true Fudd out, the ones who ARE against many types of guns does help our cause. We can't just sit back and ignore those who wish to take our gun rights away, just because they have a bolt action rifle or a side-by-side shotgun, falsely claiming to be pro-second amendment. No, these people who actively side with the gun banners need to be challenged, regardless of whether they own a gun or not.


The thing is, even a true "Fudd" is a gun owner. Most cherish their firearms, and the sport of hunting dearly. They already have their foot in the doorway of standing behind the 2nd Amendment. Unlike true antis that have already slammed it shut. Alienating them by belittling and calling them names is not going to make them come the rest of the way in. Educating them and showing them the risks to their own firearms by the banning of others, would seem to be better motivation. My point being, you cannot drive someone away with juvenile name calling and then expect them to be there to back you up when you need help.
 
The thing is, even a true "Fudd" is a gun owner. Most cherish their firearms, and the sport of hunting dearly. They already have their foot in the doorway of standing behind the 2nd Amendment. Unlike true antis that have already slammed it shut. Alienating them by belittling and calling them names is not going to make them come the rest of the way in. Educating them and showing them the risks to their own firearms by the banning of others, would seem to be better motivation. My point being, you cannot drive someone away with juvenile name calling and then expect them to be there to back you up when you need help.

anyone old enough to buy a gun (and owns one) who doesn't already understand the assault from the democrats on gun rights is fairly stupid at this point.
 
I will not join any gun club on our firing range, that requires me to be an active member of the NRA.

I went to a NRA meeting in Towson, Maryland, that had NRA officials monitoring us {six people} behind a one way mirror, in order to record our thoughts about the NRA. The SRSO at our range, invited me to be the representative of our range --- plus --- I received $100 for attending the NRA meeting.

At the NRA meeting...I pretty much echoed this man's thoughts:

"Ever since the NRA convinced hunters that the organization protected their interests, it has taken money from hunters and put it into the coffers of politicians they could count on as dependable voters for gun rights.

The problem, of course, is that many of the strongest gun rights advocates care nothing at all about the health of public lands or wild animals. The NRA's ability to take money from hunters and use it in ways that will ultimately ruin hunting constitutes one of the most dishonest public relations campaigns ever perpetrated on the American people."

Quote: Pat Wray

Link:

http://www.hcn.org/wotr/the-nra-needs-someone-like-me
 
anyone old enough to buy a gun (and owns one) who doesn't already understand the assault from the democrats on gun rights is fairly stupid at this point.


Just as anyone old enough to buy a gun(and owns one) who doesn't understand the assault from the republicans on our hunting heritage is fairly stupid at this point.....:rolleyes:




Consider the support the NRA provided to disgraced former Rep. Richard Pombo, R-Calif., prior to his co-sponsorship of a bill permitting the sale of millions of acres of public land to mining companies. Consider also, NRA's support for politicians like Idaho Republican Sen. Larry Craig, who has made a career of opening up public lands for private exploitation. Craig remains a member of the NRA board of directors. We also shouldn't forget the NRA's aggressive and public support of the Bush administration's effort to remove federal protection for 58.5 million acres of Inventoried roadless areas, in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence that roads and traffic diminish wildlife populations and hunting opportunities. These examples, and others too numerous to mention, illustrate that the NRA has
been willing to sacrifice anything in its quest for Second Amendment votes -- including our hunting heritage.

You want hunters to support your gun rights, then you need to support their right to hunt. Otherwise you are just slinging feces over the fence.
 
In my humble opinion, the time has come to stop creating further divisions among gun owners.

American gun owners stand one single SCOTUS justice away from having their 2A rights vigorously "re-interpreted".

Anti-gun advocates are maturing, finding funding, and passing laws - not just in New York and New Jersey, but also in Seattle - not to mention California - that could have sweeping impacts on Gun Rights over the next ten years.

Despite our obvious differences, the time has come to recognize that anyone who owns a gun is a member of an alliance - whether you like them or not. That alliance faces cultural changes, societal changes, and - like it or not - an evolving legal arena within which "rights" are morphing before our eyes into privileges.

The point is well made that alienating other gun-owners, regardless of their "disloyalty" to Gun Rights orthodoxy, is counter-productive.

Its time to seek messages crafted in such a manner that they are inclusive rather than exclusive - to seek talking points that most gun owners can get behind and support, even if they may not be in lockstep with the most ardent supporters.

In Seattle, Washington a law was recently passed by the City Council that established a $100 federal tax on all guns sold in the city, a .05 tax on each individual round of center fire ammunition sold in Seattle, and a .02 tax on each round of rimfire ammunition sold in Seattle. This sort of legislation does not care whether you are a hunter or a 3-gun competitor or any other flavor of gun rights supporter. Funded by Bloomberg money, it may survive the legal challenge it currently faces.

Gun owners can expect much more of this type of legislation during the 2016 election campaigns. Gun owners would be wise to set their divisions aside, and find some way to work together to create a path forward that addresses the growing threats facing what remains a distinct minority in US society in 2015.

Just MHO. YMMV.
 
The NRA's ability to take money from hunters and use it in ways that will ultimately ruin hunting constitutes one of the most dishonest public relations campaigns ever perpetrated on the American people."

What ways? You make some pretty bold accusations against the NRA, but completely forget to tell us HOW the NRA is ruining hunting. I've been a member of the NRA for over 15 years and have yet to see any evidence of the NRA doing anything to ruin hunting. Quite the contrary.
 
Just curious - How does the NRA "have the ability to take money from hunters" and how does the NRA "use it in ways that will ultimately ruin hunting?" How will the NRA's continued advocacy in support of the 2nd Amendment "ultimately ruin hunting?" Your quote of Pat Wray, then seeking membership on the NRA Board of Directors, is seven years old. The NRA is a firearms/2nd amendment organization that promotes and provides firearms knowledge, training and competition, and which supports self-defense and hunting with firearms. It is not an environmental organization that uses its resources to enhance wildlife habitat. The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, however, is dedicated to the enhancement of wildlife habitat. If you desire to support wildlife habitat you should support organizations dedicated to that purpose, e.g., the RMEF.
 
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Until I got on internet forums, the only NRA bashing I ever heard came from the anti-gun, anti-hunting types.

My father was NRA member, certified Hunter Safety & rifle & pistol instructor. All his hunting buddies, friends & relatives were NRA members. In those days, NRA member was one of the basics of being "good people".

It wasn't until the gun control push that became the GCA 68 that the NRA got involved in politics. For decades, they had kept an eye on things, and told members, without the strident calls for money and sky if falling rhetoric.

And while looking back on it, you can see that the first BIG Federal restrictions happened in 34, compared to the general ownership and use of the public, the NFA 34 only covered a tiny fraction, and while somewhat alarming, wasn't "really all that bad". Unless, of course, YOUR PERSONAL gun was on their banned list.

Well, in 68, the sky fell, or at least a big enough chunk of it, to make people in the NRA realize that #1) the NRA was potentially in a position to do something, and #2), nobody else was, and somebody needed to DO something!

Primarily due to necessity, things grew from there.

Anyone here remember what the gun banners were going after, hot and heavy, BEFORE they discovered "assault weapons"???

HANDGUNS! They were "all" nothing but bad, easily concealable murder implements. "Saturday Night Special" was the rallying cry.

The major complaints I do hear about the NRA are not valid slams against the organization, but are at best arguments disagreeing with policy and focus priorities, things which rightly are the responsibility of the elected management's choices.

Do you bash the USA because you disagree with decisions of the President or Congress?? I don't. I put the blame on the people responsible. Why don't they? Instead tis "the NRA this, the NRA that.." and that's from people ostensibly on our side!

Perhaps it is just the times, but everyone seems to instantly jump to extremist positions. It is common to hear everyone with a gun in their hands described as a "gunower" and anyone who steps off city pavement with a gun as a "hunter". Especially when they take polls...

Today, it seem that gun rights discussions START at the level of hysteria, and go up from there, and not without reason.

I realize this is the choir, but does anyone seriously think "NRA = Murderers" is not a hysterical reaction?

Ok, lots of people on our side have not done the best possible for us. Some of them certainly could have phrased things better for public consumption. I've heard Ruger vilified for his (usually misquoted) 10 rounds line.

Remember Bill Ruger when the federal AWB was being crafted: "No honest man needs more than ten rounds in his magazine."

True he did say it. But what is usually left out is the background context. Taken into account you might as well thank Ruger for 10 rounds, rather than curse him, because everyone knew a mag limit was coming, there was no stopping it (politically), and the number being aimed for was 5 for rifle and 6 for handgun (so they could cover revolvers too).

Ruger gave them a number they could latch on to, which stood a chance of being accepted, where 15, 20 or more would have been immediately tossed out, and one that also didn't harm his business.

It was an attempt to make the best of a bad situation, and while you can disagree all you want, it is totally unfair to imply that Ruger did it maliciously.

If you hunt game, then you are a hunter. To me, this qualifies you to be taken seriously in political matters the same way being an actor does.
 
No different than all the well-heeled shotgun sport enthusiasts I've seen over the years who screech bloody murder about NRA and assault weapons and Saturday Night Specials while holding their $12,000 clays gun and leaning on their $100,000 Mercedes.

Don't be so quick to stereotype these people. I shoot ATA trap and I also shoot muzzle loading matches and the vast majority of those people are either NRA members or NRA supporters.
Most of them are well aware that "assault weapons" are only the first step even if they are not interested in those guns themselves.
 
I think the problem is that while many hunters are also ardent supporters of the RKBA, the antigun folks are cherry picking some to make statements.

The strategy is to use folks who are supposedly 'gun folks' to denounce the SD mantra, EBRs and the like.

You see:

1. A conservative minister in the NY Times debating that Jesus wouldn't carry a side arm and he's a conservative preacher.

2. The hunters like Zumbo or Metcalf denouncing the ARs

3. Warriors and veterans who are thus gun experts. We see administrators from the University of Texas who were special forces (and thus civilian gun use experts) denounce campus carry. They know about guns!

This patina of expertise is used to defame or convince people that 'experts' really think that guns for SD or defense against tyranny is silly.

It's a step up from the Biden Double Barrel, shot in the air, version of gun expertise.
 
I don't know if I would consider it a step up half step, maybe, and a step or two to the side.

Sort of like how the big city police chief is an expert on guns & crime, (when he pushes gun control) but the County Sherriff is a rural moron, when he doesn't push gun control?

Also, don't confuse "special forces" with "special services". They aren't the same. Not even close...

Time Warp, just a jump to the left, then a step to the riiight....

while we wait for the pelvic thrusts to drive us insayayayannneee....:D;)
 
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