Another bump in the night question: Ammo Capacity Vs Caliber

shotgun is a way way more effective weapon. Anyway you look at it, its way more effective.
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Unless the person can't handle it well. My wife can handle my 9mm very well. A shotgun, not so much. I rather her have 6 shots of 9mm than 6 shots of 12 gauge 00 buck. The fact that the 9mm has 16 shots is just a great bonus.

Sometimes what the person can and will practice with is the most important consideration.
 
What should I go for:

More ammo capacity or higher caliber?
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In the end, it's a choice we all have to make. I'll carry a P228 in 9mm, a P229 .40, or a P220 in .45.

What I carry that day is what's sitting on my night stand.

Which isn't all that far from my 870.:D
 
I understand everyone has different circumstances but generally speaking, instead of shooting someone sixteen times over the course of 3 or 4 seconds, I'd rather shoot them sixteen times all at once.
 
Quote:
When it comes to preparing for individual security….
Quote:
Amateurs think equipment,
Students think techniques,
Experts think tactics.

I would expect an expert to consider all 3 equally. Any one of the 3 relies on the other 2.
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I too think that an expert needs to be equally concerned about all three.

What good is tactics if you don't have equipment or techniques?

I any case that is outside the scope of this thread.

This thread is about capacity vs caliber.
 
The answer is in the concept of explanatory variance. Expert opinion (or whatever) would indicate that there is little difference between a quality 9mm round or 45 ACP. Thus, that is a moot point. It's fun to argue on the Internet though.

Someone will propose that the shotgun is the ultimate weapon. Some will say use an AR as easier to use than a shotgun.

But, without a reasonable knowledge and skill base to use any efficacious weapon, you are at a disadvantage. Esp. if you contemplate negotiating around your house at night.

There is little useful variance in your two choices. It probably makes NO difference in a reasonable scenario. If it were more intense than can be handled with a handgun - then you do need the AR.

Thus, that's why folks like Holschen tear their hair out (well, he can't do much of that - sorry - :D), when folks in a class just want to talk about ammo and type of gun.

You could handle most situations with a SW Model 10 and a good 38 SPL. If it is more intense, you should know what you are doing. Having a custom 1911 vs. a Glock 34 doesn't matter.
 
Can anyone give an example of a homeowner needing more rounds than the gun held in a break-in?
I don't buy the argument of "I had rather have too many...." If one feels that way why not a hundred rounds and maybe a shotgun to boot?

Jerry
 
What should I go for:

More ammo capacity or higher caliber?
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How about the one you can hit the target with. Amount of shot and caliber mean nothing if you miss every time, focus on shot placement that is important. Dont belive me? ask my cousin shot 3 times at close range with a 357. He is walking around today. My Uncle shot in nam 11 times, is still walking around, altho slowly.

I was shot once, and am still walking around. Now if he had better aim? wouldnt be here today.
 
Moral of the story: stay away from MarkJ. His family draws fire like my mailbox draws bills.
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Most of us are LEO or military. Nephew just got back from afgan he was in some heavy stuff but wasnt hit, his buddy and sgt were killed tho.
 
You could always split the difference and get a high-cap .40 S&W. Better yet you could get the best of all worlds and get a Para Ordnance 14.45. A 14+1 capacity .45ACP ends the deabate, if you can grip it.
 
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Just a few other options... You know, for the fire power.
 
I'm going w/capacity, too. I figure 20 rds from my XDm9 Compact 3.8 should be enough. If not, I've got 26 more close by.
 
To the OP, what do YOU in your gut feel is more important?

We told you to do that! You can thank us later.
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I'm torn.

I guess I am leaning toward ammo capacity.

When we are at the range we are usually shooting at stationary targets, and we take our time aiming.

I think it would be much harder to hit a moving target, under extremely high stress, perhaps in low light conditions.

I've shot a lot at the range, but have never really trained for a true real life situation.

I think unless you have seen actual gun combat few people have.

You probably can never have too much ammo.

I also have an AR, and pump shotgun.

The pump shotgun really isn't ideal if I miss and I need to get off another shot. It does have an extended 8 shell magazine however.

The AR is a possibility, but I think it would be dangerous to go investigating with a long gun, because it can be taken away easier, and as the retired police officer said, it would be harder to open doors and move things.

However, it would be nice having 30 rounds in a magazine of 5.56 going about 3,000 fps. Those are extremely powerful rounds. Perhaps too powerful...


So I guess I am leaning toward my Glock 17 with the light, strobbing light, and laser.

I shoot very well with all my guns. However, I am no longer proficient with the shotgun. However, I can be.
 
For home protection, one does not need ammo...

Every one of us knows the sound that a pump shotgun makes when a round is being chambered. Whether it is due to movie trailers or real life experience, it is an unmistakable sound.

I would argue that the simple act of cycling the shotgun open and closed again (without any effort to be quiet) will clear a home of intruders without ever resorting to squeezing the trigger. It is first line of defense in our home.

However, the intruder that is not wise enough to understand may need further education. For that reason, there is always a full magazine of home defense rounds in the gun.

Since my wife prefers the pistol-grip pump shotgun with green laser (because it compliments her black silk nightie), I have the backup Sig226 .40 in the Gunvault beside the bed. I am forbidden to shoot first.
 
In order of importance: Mindset, Judgment, tactics, marksmanship, firearm.

We must all sleep and thus have no choice but be in Condition White from six to eight hours nightly. The intruder, on the other hand, is fully awake, alert and knows he's entering a hot situation.

To level the playing field, you need some form of early warning such as burglar alarms, a dog or a house that's really tough to break into without raising a racket. You need to go from a dead sleep to fully awake as quickly as possible.

Tactical advantage lies with the person who remains, armed, ready, hidden and motionless. Let the danger come to you if you have that option. Conduct a sweep and you become the prey.

You can buy a 13 round mag for an S&W M&P 45 if legal in your state. Para-ordinance also makes some high-cap .45s. Differences in caliber performance are greatly exaggerated and statistics on "one shot stops" are separated by mere percentage points.

And yes, it ain't Hollywood. Any armed resistance on your part will have intruders fleeing, not trading lead with you. An 8-shot .45 should be more than enough, assuming you can hit what you're aiming at.
 
For home defense I'd rather have a shotgun around and a handgun for BU. If only a handgun, I'd go with one that has higher capcity that I have confidence in and can shoot well. Shot placement is fine and will do the job whether it's 380 or 45 but you never know how many people are there to begin with. I'd rather have extra bullets in case someone comes back with his/her friends. 8 rounds can go mighty fast in a stressful situation. Even on the street what with the gangs you could meet, you could really want those extra rounds no matter how well you shoot. And chances are for a lot of people they will be able to shoot a 9mm better than a 45 if nothing else than from being able to practice more.
 
There is a great video series called "The Best Defense" by Midway USA that ran on the Outdoor Channel. During Season One, one of the shows was Home Defense Part 2 and they demonstrated the effect of .45 ACP handgun vs. 9mm handgun vs. AR-15 rifle vs. 12 gauge shotgun (using 00 Buckshot) vs. 12 gauge shotgun (using birdshot).

The hands-down winner was the 12 gauge shotgun using birdshot. Because we're talking about home defense, one of the most significant factors was the amount of penetration into and through structures that are behind the intended target.
 
Bump in the night? First, a light, 60 lumens minimum, with a push clicky that makes momentary contact before tripping. You have a real need to determine what is out there to positively identify it. Teenagers coming home from closing shift, your neighbor wandering around a bit drunk and misoriented, whatever.

Choice of gun and caliber should be what you probably already carry for CCW. You practice with it and know that trigger better than any other, right? No fumbling with a rarely used safety or awkward grip.

Of course, it's already too late to ask yourself what you failed to do and why someone is now highly attracted to your property and person. Goes to most home invasions being 1) I stole drugs from my druglord, 2) Took his girlfriend. The minority left over is simply being what appears to be a victim. The young lady in Oklahoma had that working against her.

Overpenetration of bulllets is a genuine concern, but it works both ways: American frame home construction is flimsy, and undergunning yourself to prevent a unlikely chance of hitting the innocent needs to be weighed against the very real need to shoot the BG just the other side of the interior wall.

Have you actually mapped out the shooting lanes in your house and know which one endangers the family? Secondly, got to ask, why wasn't the BG DRT just inside the broken entrance? Someone's beating down the door, where else should you be with a light and gun? Telling them you'll shoot them while talking to 911.

Due diligence in setting up exterior security and not being an attractive nuisance to your neighborhood goes a long way in prevention.
 
Hibby said:
The hands-down winner was the 12 gauge shotgun using birdshot.
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You might want to search the Shotgun forum for that discussion; but I don't think that was the point the episode was trying to convey. IIRC, the host of the episode was Rob Pincus and he has discussed the limitations of birdshot and that particular episode in the forums here before.

As tirod pointed out:

tirod said:
Overpenetration of bulllets is a genuine concern, but it works both ways: American frame home construction is flimsy, and undergunning yourself to prevent a unlikely chance of hitting the innocent needs to be weighed against the very real need to shoot the BG just the other side of the interior wall.
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I just add that if it is stopped by a single interior wall in a typical frame home (two sheets of 5/8" drywall with no insulation between), it will probably be marginal on a 100lb+ mammal that represents an immediate threat of death or serious injury.
 
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