...And old-style muzzle-loaders...

L

Long Path

New member
What do y'all know of the Lyman Great Plains caplock .58 cal. with double-set triggers? This thing looks beautiful. Great receiver peep sights (By Lyman, of course.), good finish and fit. Didn't get a chance to snap the trigger, but does $429 (no tax) sound like too much? It's brand new, at the dealer.

Any other suggestions for this kind of quality, for less?

What's the best deal going on a non-in-line, muzzle-loading, accurate rifle (flint or cap), of .58 cal or better? (I might be persuaded to go .54 cal.)

Thanks in advance.

L.P.
 
I have a Thompson-Center in .54. The .54's from what I have seen are more accurate than the .58's. Also, with the .54 you can use sabots with heavy (300 gr .44 pistol bullets) if you want to.

Lyman makes an excellent rifle. The .50's used to be in 1-66 twist only, but I have heard they now offer a 1-32. I do not know about the .54's and .58's.

I like you choice in rifle. I do not care much for the in-lines with scopes and all.
 
Best of the old and the new, the T/C Grey Ghost sidelock, 1/48 twist bbl, all stainless with a Rynite stock, is my only BP gun. Mine is a .50 but it's also available in .54. I don't know if my gun is typical but at 50 yds it puts successive shots on top of each other using a patched ball and 70 gr. equiv. Pyrodex, iron sights. (BTW, a friend of mine shot right through a 900-lb Maine moose with a .50 patched ball over 90 gr. FFG, so a .54 or .58, or a sabot slug, isn't REALLY a necessity for humane hunting.)

I really like the looks and heft of the Lyman Great Plains Rifle. I would buy it in the 1/60 twist for round ball (just my preference.) The best price I have seen on these is in the Midsouth catalog.

As nice as the Lyman is I am so spoiled by stainless I'm looking to buy a T/C Hawken Silver Elite, sometime, if the checkbook ever allows. I like T/C a lot, great company, great service, quality products.

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An armed man is a citizen; an unarmed man is a subject; a disarmed man is a slave.
 
Having never been into big-cals, I've gotta ask a stupid question:

Why the slow twists?

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Ignorance is takin' over,
We gotta take the power back.
--Rage Against The Machine
 
Through experimentation and experience, the gunsmiths of the olde days learned that slow twists worked best for round balls. Remember, they didn't have boat-tail hollow pointed bullets in the revolution (OK, so nails, rocks and anything which could be shoved down the barrel was used by patriots/rebels at Breed's Hill (better known as Bunker Hill). Even when the round ball was fired with a greased patched, it has less surface area (than a minie bullet) which could be brought to bear against the lands. Thus, 1-66" or 1-70" while normal, was far from the slowest. The British Baker Rifle of the Napoleonic Wars had a 1-120".

For you smokepole shooters who enjoy reading (beside Ned Robert's, "The Muzzle Loading Cap-Lock Rifle," or Walther Cline's, "Muzzleloading - Now and Then"), if you get a chance try Ezekiel Baker's book, "Notes on the Rifle-Gun." While it is self-promoting, his commentaries on firearm safety (1820) is still very relevant.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
Long Path,

I've been looking at these rifles for some time, but I am not familiar with the configuration that you describe.

The Lyman catalog shows the Great Plains rifle in .50 or .54, but no .58. Also, the sights are all very simple drift adjustable, and no peep sights offered. Are you sure of the caliber, and that the gun is new?

I have seen this rifle in standard configuration for $340 - $375.
 
There is a peep sight model of the Great Plains rifle. It also features the globe front sight. Unfortunately for me, it's not allowed at Rendezvos. Anyway, it would look kinda funny on a flintlock.

I like the T/C Hawkens, but they don't cater to southpaws who want rock fired guns instead of that fandangle Forsyth inspired percussion-cap. The Lyman is a good gun so I have no regrets about picking one up (mine is a left handed flintlock in .50). I can't attest to its accuracy because I'm still learning how to use it and playing with different patches, powder combinations.

The Navy Arms one is suppose to be very strong. I thought I read in the Blackpowder Handbook that Val Forgett (deceased) used about 150 grains of BP to in his when he hunted cape buffalo. That's tough.

When you really get picky, you get custom made barrels. Metford rifling is reputed
to be one of the best and I think it the Metford rfiling that Rigby and the Irish Team used in the big competition against the Americans in the late 1800s.

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TaxPhd:
Yep, it was brang new, on the wall at Moutain Man Trading post and Gallery in Sisters, OR. The sight was a high post, not a globe. The rear sight was a sturdy Lyman peep not unlike what you'd put on the receiver of a M-94. They had the same rifle for about $370 with buckhorn open sights, so I figure you're actually just paying $60 extra for the good peep, installed. Not bad! I'm hoping it's a 1:32, as I'd like to load minnie/Maxi balls in it, too.

I have no interest in sabots, nor scopes, not in-lines.

The shorter the projectile, the slower the twist needed to stablilize. However, it is not as detrimental to have a fast twist on a short ball as it is to have a slow twist on a long bullet, hence, I want the faster twist to go double-duty.

But at .58 cal, a ball is plenty. I have no interest in going less than .54 cal. I hunt in somewhat open areas where shots of well over 70 yards are the rule, and I'm not using a .50 for big deer and/or elk from more than pistol ranges. Frankly, a .50 with round balls for moose sounds like a stunt, to me, but I'm glad everything turned out all right.

As much as I love my stainless Sendero, I just can't make myself go stainless for my first muzzle-loader. If I'm giving up my edge, I guess that I'll give up even that edge.

Thanks for the input! Any more????
 
Just got a message from Lyman that they haven't made the .58 cal in 20 years.

Called the store, and they corrected that it was, in fact, a .54. Oops.

Hmmmm..
 
So, we're all waiting for anticipation, which smokepole are you going to buy?

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The Lyman Great Plains Rifle , comes in .54 caliber not .58, it is a good solid shooter, made well and I recommend it highly...for the money a lefty' like me, can not do better...without having a custom made gun built.
I have both the flintlock and the percussion they are worth the current price. Check barrel to stock fit, tension on astuntion keys,inspect lock for alighnment,fit,and function.

And enjoy your new smokepole "Nugget" NJ Garden State Reenactors.
 
Um... the Boss (my wife) is kinda putting her foot down about a $400 rifle until after some tuition payments are made. [looking at floor, scraping toe...]

BUT... BUT... what about the same set-up in the kit form? They're only about $200!!!! Anybody done this? Is it easy/hard? Too much work? Hard to get accuracy? I'm "moderately handy." I can do things like bed my rifle and bevel a magazine well, but I've never tried that kind of thing.


I will accept the .54, now that I know that it has a 1:32 twist (and thus will take maxi balls).
 
D&R sells the 1-32" twist for $257.97 (.50 or .54 cal). Check out their website listed above.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
Kit gun.....I do not recommend it...saving a couple of dollars is ok...but not if you have never built a muzzleloader before.
I suggest you save the money...shop around for a better deal...and only get a kit....If you really want to start building muzzleloaders. the kits give you a TASTE only for the work required to build a rifle...the kits come 95% complete, but that last 5% can be a pain if you want a good looking gun.( And you may have to purchase some tools you don't have, or finishes like stain,oils,polish,files,that could add to the overall outlay.! )

My advice again is to buy a finished weapon...and the if you can not shake the bug...and want to start building try a kit.
And if you like it, then the next one from scratch will take alot of your spare time, like 100-300 hours....drive you insane, cost you plenty for the mistakes...ask any builder of muzzle guns...he will be glad to fill you in. But the rewards of building a smoke pole from scratch the carving of the stock, the inletting of the lock and the barrel, the filing and polsihing of the castings, the assembly of the lock, the etc... etc... etc...are unequaled when the task is finished , the gun is one of a kind, yours, and shoots straight and true.
 
I've been shooting a Great Plains Rifle in 54 cal. at the Rendevous for about the past 1 1/2 years. I have the slow twist because all I shoot is round ball. It is a very accurate rifle. It has more accuracy than I can use in most field/primitive shooting situations. If I do my part I can compete with (and sometimes win!) against the guys with the high dollar customs. I think I paid about $325 for mine. It is a fantastic rifle and I highly recommend it!

Mike
 
Ah, Jaeger, what're ya doing to me, man? [sigh] Now I have to buy one.

I'm thinking of hitting the gunshow, first, to see if I can find someone who tried it and didn't like it, got bored, and wants to sell. The wife is standing firm on that tuition-payment-first thing. [pout]

BUT, you've got me settled on the rifle. Anyone tried it in fast-twist? And what kind of accuracy are we really talking about, here? 4" at 100?
 
Long Path. I mailed order my Great Plains from D&R. Cost me less than $300 delivered (left hand flint lock).

As a sidenote, I just picked up a Parker Hale Enfield Musketoon. Looks almost new and it was a deal.

Anybody know if the 24" Musketoon took the same sword bayonet as the 33" rifle?

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
I don't think I've ever benched it at that distance. All of my shooting at those ranges has been from either off hand or field expedient rested positions. I have the buckhorn sights and like I said, if I miss, it's not the rifles fault! The wood on mine is georgeous! A friend of mine bought one used and "antiqued" it. Brass tacks, wire wrapping, browned finish. It looks fantastic. Very authentic!
 
I built a caplock CVA Mountain Rifle kit in .54 in 1984 or so. It has the browned bbl and furniture. It was a rewarding project and people can't believe I finished it. Off the bench, it will easily shoot within 4" at 100 yds using the iron sights.

I also had two T/C flint-powered rifles in .50 at various times. The flint really gives you the feeling of mastering your weapon, when you can make it kB! nearly every time!

Note: do not fire from the hip. The flame from the flash pan will burn your hair off!

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Yankee Doodle
 
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