Analysis of Walther P99 vs. Glock compact models

R

redbone

Inactive
Okay, now for another Walther/Glock thread. I've read several of these with interest over the last few months. So, here's my take.

Glocks are great guns. So are walthers. I have experience with bth. The appropriate comparision with a Walther P99 is either a G19 or G23, depending on the caliber of choice (9mm or .40). These are the compact size guns.

1. Several posters have complained about the Glocks great design drawback - its blocky shape. This is refered to as carrying a brick, ugly guns, etc. The Walther is much slimmer, especially the slide. I find the Glock to be difficult to conceal under light clothing.

2. Some have commented about the rather thick width of the Glock grip. The Walther offers choices designed to fit a wide range of hand sizes.

3. The Glock trigger is sometimes criticized as being "spongy," and many posters appear to be concerned to carry a round in the chamber, given the relatively light trigger pull. The Walther has a decidely not-spongy trigger pull, and is equipped with a decocker to increase the first round, double action trigger pull if the user so desires.

These are the major criticisms that I have encountered regarding the Glock design. Again, I think Glocks are great guns (my wife carries a G27, and in her hands it is a tack-driver).


So....what's my point? Here it is, in simple terms:


The Walther is simply an improved Glock. The issues that some have with the Glock design have been addressed in the Walther design. Slimmer, adjustible grip fit, decidely better trigger pull, and decocker if you choose to use it.

My experience with reliability is that both guns are extremely reliable, and I can also get lock-backs on both guns if I intentionally limp wrist.

Agree? Disagree??


:)

RBH
 
1. Several posters..
2. Some have commented...
3. ..sometimes criticized as...

I have none of three issues you speak of. Can get the Glock for $445 out the door, and just bought two Glock Hi-caps for what they're asking for one for the Walther. Where's the "improvment" to justify my switching?

It also has to be proven as good better which means to me wide scale adotion and testing to confirm the basic design. Remember how many positive post and Gunzine stories were out on the "P" model Kahrs before problems seemingly cropped up out of nowhere...
 
I don't know about the P-99 being an "improved Glock" a different "Polymer" maybe.

Personal Preference is the key.

The one thing about the SA P-99 trigger I like is that it is very easy to develop a habit of taking out the slack and knowing exactly when to stop. After you take the slack out, the trigger pull for a shot is about 2mm. My habit is to take the slack out when moving from low ready to target. For me that makes the SA trigger much more comfortable. I carry mine cocked all the time.


Can open worms all over.
 
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Redbone, you have some very valid obervations. Unfortunately, when someone compares gun 'a' to gun 'b' and prefers one over the other, the owners of the other gun feel slighted, and go on a Jihad to protect their egos from the infidel.

That said, I also have shot Glocks, but bought the Walther for every reason you buy a gun, and a few more reasons (read: attributes) that the Glock doesn't have. Yes, you could rightly consider the Walther an 'improved Glock', but then the Glock is only an 'improved (insert gun of your choice here)', and that gun a descendent of some earlier ancestor still. It's all a matter of leapfrogging.

In the series 'Story Of The Gun', one firearms historian commented that gun technology has reached a zenith... that it's as good as it's going to get, until a radical weapons technology changes the landscape, such as energy weapons.

Until then, given the choices on the market, I'll take the Walther over a Glock. I prefer it's overall feel, and after 2200+ rounds in three months, have become absolutely convinced of its reliability, quality, accuracy, ergonomics, trigger, technology, aesthetics, and enhanced feature set. Don't get me wrong... the Glock is an awesome gun, but I just prefer the Walther in every area.

It's too bad more people don't try shooting a few boxes through one, and compare it side-by-side to a Glock. Kind of a 'Coke and Pepsi challenge'. I'm sure we P99 owners would have a great many more converts.
 
I'm curious as to how you adjust the width of the P-99 grip. I've figured out how you adjust trigger reach with the swappable backstraps, but the width adjustment still eludes me. ;)

P-99's big problem in my collection is that they're nice guns.

I'll get one eventually, I'm sure, but it will likely wind up a safe queen like my P-226 and 96D.

See, if I want to carry a nice gun, I'll carry a P7 or custom 1911.

Glocks, on the other hand, are cheap, ugly, soulless, almost disposable, drive-a-nail-with-it tools. Sort of a polymer Makarov with a larger choice of calibers. The things that so many despise about them are the exact reasons I like them. ;)
 
Rovert: Jihad indeed!

Tamara: ya got me on the grip width... should have said "overall grip circumference." Polymer Mak... Yeah!!

RBH
 
LOL!

Tamara, it can truly be said that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think you might have come up with a new sloagan... "Glocks... a look only a mother could love". :D Point taken, though. It's the reasoning many divers don't spend lots of money on fancy wristwatches for thousands of dollars, in favor of 'cheapo' utilitarian types. They say that where safety is paramount, you don't want to make a decision to prevent losing a $3000 watch, and risk your life in the process.

I think the confusion over the P99 grip is in what one considers 'width'. In this case, the backstrap is interchangeable, altering the distance between the frontstrap and backstrap, or fore to aft.... 'width' if you look at the gun from the side. The handle on the rear is 'pocketed' or 'notched' to accept three different sized rear inserts.

This line art drawing should help. Note the angled lines on the back of the handle. That is the area where the backstraps seat, held in on the top by a notch, and below by a friction pin.

p99.jpg
 
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I'd have to disagree with the Walther simply being an improved Glock. The Glock's recoil mechanism is derived from Browning, polymer had been done before, and many rifles use strikers.
Improvements in firearms seems to be evolutionary rather than revolutionary. The base of each gun is derived from a previous design. The most obvious common point of the Glock and Walther is the polymer frame.
While the Walther does use a striker mechanism, the first trigger offered replicated the feel and function of a hammer-based trigger. The loaded chamber indicator is better in a Walther. Plus those differences that you mentioned.
Does this make it better? Well, that is in the eye of the beholder.
 
I gotta agree...

...that the P-99 has the best trigger on any of the plastic pistols. Feels almost like a light DA revolver.

When my roomie had one, I used to sit around and dry-fire the bejabbers out of the poor thing.
 
...on the other hand, the location of that decocker is an abomination on a pistol that has such sweet ergonomics otherwise. What were they thinking? Did the lead designer go to lunch? "Vell, Fritz, almost done am I mit der new pistole. I'm going to fetch a bratwurst and a beer, just pencil in a place for the decocker und meet me at the biergarten, ja?" He leaves, and the junior woodchuck engineer just scribbles something on top of the slide, grabs his coat, and bolts after his boss for some vittles. :confused:
 
How many gunfights were lost because the gun could not be decocked fast enough? What is the hurry to decock? Why would you ever need to decock while in the Iso or Weaver stance? Would someone want to decock in a gunfight so they could take advantage of the DA trigger?

If it was put somewhere else, like a Rugers is, it could hang up during deployment.

Just because we don't understand what the engineer was thinking, doesn't mean it isn't a sound principle. The decocker is there, out of the way. It does not stick out and thus will not hang up on a garment. At least it has a decocker, which doesn't mean anything to me because I never have any need to decock. I like that baby hot, and ready to roll.
 
Oh, it's no critical design flaw; it's just annoying. All controls should be able to be operated one-handed.

They could have put the button in the side of the slide or something.

And as far as "levers snagging", my SIG's decocker never snags on anything, and the P-99's mag releases don't show an excessive concern for lack of protruding levers. ;)

There's no pistol without some faults, otherwise we'd all own that one; every gun I own has some.
 
Here are my reasons for not switching to the Walther P99 and why I choose to stay Glocking.

No I've never shot a P99 and even if they are "better" here are why:

1. As defense guns go Glocks are as good as they get (IMHO).

2. Glocks are cheaper. Makes them more accessible financially and you're able to buy (collect) more.

3. Mags and Accessories are cheaper and there are more CHOICES. You're also more likely to find Glock mags/accessories at your nearest shop.

4. Flexibility: G22 mag works in G23. G23 mag works in G27. Full size/Compact/Subcompacts make great primary/back-up combinations. I like that.

5. Glocks are available in all standard automatic defense calibers 9mm, .40, .357, 10mm, and .45. No need to switch to a different type of gun to shoot different caliber. And in some cases just switch barrels.

6. Glock has earned its reputation despite the enormous resistance at its inception. A pistol which gets such grudging respect is amusing. I'm tickled Glocks seem to bug so many people.

7. I'm used to them.

8. All the Glocks I've ever shot were reliable, reliable, reliable.

9. Glock has one of the best (if not the best) customer service.

10. I've always felt I needed to baby Sigs, HKs, and nice 1911's (not that they needed to be/they can take abuse) But Glocks have gotten me away from this attitude that guns should be treated like art objects.

I'm sure Walther P99's are great guns but switching would mean change into the unknown :eek: and I can't have that :rolleyes: :eek:
 
Tamara, gotta disagree with you on the decocker. Doesn't seem to be a problem to me. Just pop the thumb up and your'e decocked. Not the least bit annoying IMO. I agree with P-99er that the decock is something to worry about after your'e done shooting.:)
 
I mentioned in a previous thread that the P99 was the 'have it all' gun. This is due to the many features that it has. For some this is a big plus, for others the simplicity of the Glock is preferred.

Overall though if the Glock and P99 were selling for about the same price the Walther would be a better deal. In fact the P99 to me could make serious inroads into Glock's market share if the prices stay down and they issue a compact version. The P99s are so much more accurate with a great trigger. Only time will tell if they are as reliable and durable as Glocks and HK USPs.

I agree with Tamara that the decocker is clumsily placed and requires significant grip adjustment to manipulate one hand.
This can be a big deal in a defensive situation where you want to maintain that DA pull even after discharging a round whilst maintaining control of your firearm. Of course the P99 Quick Action
could be also be considered if one trigger pull for you is a top priority.
 
Hmmm... interesting points on the decocker. I'm totally guessing here, but I imagine that it needs to be where it is, because it's a striker fired gun, as opposed to other decocking guns based upon hammers.

The thing is... where would you put it, if you had a chance to relocate it? On the left side of the gun, and you'd have to reposition the slide release, sacrificing the terrific placement of that. On the right side of the gun is not intuitive. Lower on the slide interferes with the cocking serrations. At the back of the slide would sacrifice the visibility of the striker condition indicator. On the handle is a recipe for disaster, because it could be accidentally decocked in a crisis, and the unexpectedly long trigger pull could be a problem in a HD or SHTF scenario. I wonder if the Glock had a decocker, if it would be in the same place, or if they'd relocate it elsewhere.

Hmmm... zis might be der gut qvestion fur Earl. :)

I don't have a problem with the placement... I can manage to reach it with a little repositioning on the grip, but everyone's hands are different. I have difficulty actuating the slide release on a 1911 without moving my hand.

The good thing about Glocks is that despite that really wierd trigger, you only need to get used to ONE trigger pull for the entire line. That kind of simplicity and consistency appeals to many people.
 
Though I seldom use the decocker with my P99QA, I like where it is positioned.

I think that the risk of accidently decocking is greater than the risk of not decocking.

The decocker needs to be placed physically near the striker mechanism. However, if it were located on either side of the slide or on the back where the cocking indicator is located - I think that you could accidently risk decocking when you draw.

The top of the slide, just in front of the rear sight (the current location of the P99 decocker) is probably the only place near the striker where your hand won't accidently touch when drawing.
 
I think the decocker is like most every thing else, a matter of personal opinion. Although I agree that I can't see the need for speedy decocking, I can't think of any situation where in the heat of self defense I would want to decock for any reason whatsoever. The only time I can see myself worrying about decocking is just before I surrender it to a responding LEO, and that is just for safety sake.

Rovert and Mr. Pub makes some very good points. Must have something to do with being striker fired. Perhaps if it were placed anywhere else, it would not be as efficient, like maybe needing a long rod to the striker.

When I first saw the location of the decocker, I thought it was neat and nifty. As far as being able to operate it with one hand, that is a old paradigm I assume. I never saw that in the handgun design regulation book. Typically I shoot with both hands, so it would not be an issue to move my weak side hand back and decock. I can decock mine with my thumb while my finger is still on the trigger, though I don't see the need.

If all we can find bad about a P-99 is a personal opinion regarding the location of the decocker, it must be an overall good handgun.

I think Rover and Mr. Pub have probably provided the reasoning. I would be interested to see how other similar pistols, striker fired, use a decocker.
 
Reading this thread it came to my attention that some of you are carrying cocked and unlocked. What is the reasoning behind this practice (safety wise, I realise why it would be attractive shooting wise). Most modern DA/SA autos have some take up before the sear trips, but I've never heard it suggested that Condition 0 would be a viable carry method, even with a grip safety. Could someone comment on this. I'll also look at the Walther website.
 
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