If it says hollow point and advertises its high rate of speed turn away, walk away. Look away, Just say no no no a thousand times no. You do not want a fast expanding bullet if your objective is to stop an attack. You need that little 22 LR bullet to get in as far as it can go. You need it to get in deep where the vital organs are and you can cause the maximum damage inside the bad guy. You need a bullet that can break through a human bone and your stingers and velocitors and thunderbolts and cyclones and all the other over hyped hyper speed hollow points will not do the job unless you are really lucky. Something like CCI minimag copper plated 409 gr RN bullet or the Winchester Super X plated RN or Power point will work much better for you. Brand not particularly important but solid bullet is.
Ammo Recomendations For CCW 22 Rimfire
- Thread starter 7mmWSM
- Start date
Um- try telling her she's making a poor choice?
Perhaps let her know there's small calibers than 38 - without having to go to unreliable rimfires...
Even a 32 is going to be a better CCW choice.
Ps- I LOVE rimfires, own more of them then anything else- but they are NOT very good selection for concealed carry.
Perhaps let her know there's small calibers than 38 - without having to go to unreliable rimfires...
Even a 32 is going to be a better CCW choice.
Ps- I LOVE rimfires, own more of them then anything else- but they are NOT very good selection for concealed carry.
I have a buckmark thats about reliable as any and it might be a great choice for a female or anyone really. I don't know of anyone especially myself who wants to stand there and take a 22 and keep standing afterwards. I'd be flouncing around like a fish. Anything is better than nothing.
What ever ya pick, don't ever use any Remington. 
Go with CCI 40 grain solid points for hopes of maximum penetration vs unreliable expansion because of the relatively slow speed from a pistol barrel. Remember,- the velocity claims ya see on the box of ammo are usually coming from a rifle barrel, not a pistol.
My recommendation is the "40 grain CCI Velocitors"or the "40 grain CCI Minimags".
I like the additional speed of the CCI Stingers but they are almost a 1/4 lighter, thus compromising any penetration, especially from a short barreled pistol.
Try out a few types to see what the pistol likes and functions the best with. Reliability in all factors is a must, for with a .22lr ya need to prepare for a full ammo dump.
Stick with no less than CCI!
Go with CCI 40 grain solid points for hopes of maximum penetration vs unreliable expansion because of the relatively slow speed from a pistol barrel. Remember,- the velocity claims ya see on the box of ammo are usually coming from a rifle barrel, not a pistol.
My recommendation is the "40 grain CCI Velocitors"or the "40 grain CCI Minimags".
I like the additional speed of the CCI Stingers but they are almost a 1/4 lighter, thus compromising any penetration, especially from a short barreled pistol.
Try out a few types to see what the pistol likes and functions the best with. Reliability in all factors is a must, for with a .22lr ya need to prepare for a full ammo dump.
Stick with no less than CCI!
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Buck marks- some of my favorites as well- have both pistols and the somewhat elusive buck mark rifles as well.
Anyways... I LOL'd. I love when folks respond to criticism on a particular caliber or weapon with "well I wouldn't want to get shot with one" - well... Duh. I don't want to get shot with a bb gun- nor poked with a sharp stick, but that's doesn't mean either are good choices for CCW.
Anything is better than nothing? I agree. But that's a false choice here- there's no reason it's a .22 or nothing other than the guys wife said she prefers in to a 38 or 9mm....
Who knows what kind of .38 she tried and disliked.... Hell, there's .38's I've shot (full house SD loads from a air weight 642) that I hated! Id rather shoot a 10mm all day than that damn thing. Anyways- If that was my one and only exposure to a 38- I might think the caliber was too much as well. However, going to .22 is not the only alternative.
It's not even that .22's are inherently unreliable - its more a function of rimfire primers are inherently unreliable and thus the .22 ammo is a weak link..... In addition to the feeble stopping power of the round.
I'd strongly recommend you find, borrow or rent some other choices for her: a Ruger LCP or LCR might be just right.... Or even keltec P32 if you need to get lighter.....
CCI MiniMags. They are the only .22LR ammo that I know of that works well in every gun, and they are not terribly expensive. I'd probably go with the 40 grain solids rather than the hollow points.
.38 Special wadcutters would be a better choice, but that's not what you asked about.
thibaultfelix40
New member
Every living creature I ever shot with a 22 lr either changed its mind or died. It would take an unusally strong woman to operate my Taurus 94. My smith j frames work great. I think people who respond to this kind of post should have some experience killing with a 22. I know for a fact that a minimag hp will blow the heart and lungs out of a small dog
Frank Ettin
Administrator
How about a 250 pound man loaded with adrenalin and methamphetamine advancing on you from a distance of 15 feet and swinging a machete?thibaultfelix40 said:
thibaultfelix40
New member
Frank Etten, what hand gun does stop that guy? I think that scenairio is more about the power of the drugs than the power of the gun. I don't go where they hangout,but eight in the knee or throat might do the trick better than a 45 into space
Frank Ettin
Administrator
My point is that for the purposes of choosing self defense ammunition, what it will do to a small dog is completely irrelevant.thibaultfelix40 said:
But to raise another point, what could possibly make you believe that if someone is attacking you with a contact weapon, you'd be able to put eight rounds into his knee or throat. And if he started 15 feet away from you, you'd have about one second to do it in.
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Spats McGee
Administrator
The .22 that she'll carry beats the .45 that stays at home every day of the week and twice on Sunday. With that said, it might also be worthwhile to at least ask her try out some of the reduced recoil .38 Spl loads that are out there.
Good luck in your search.
Good luck in your search.
Obambulate
New member
Ruger LCR-22 is a good .22 carry gun. Lightweight, accurate, reliable, and utterly simple to operate. Prices are falling on these to well under $400.
Maybe next year they'll offer the LCR in .22 Magnum or .32 Long/Magnum. Those would make a nice choice for the recoil sensitive, with a bit more pop than the .22LR.
Maybe next year they'll offer the LCR in .22 Magnum or .32 Long/Magnum. Those would make a nice choice for the recoil sensitive, with a bit more pop than the .22LR.
thibaultfelix40
New member
Frank, my point is that the 22 left a hole about the size of a 50 cent piece in 8 inches of chest tissue. I think that the physical damage done by bullets to animals can be drawn on to extrapolate what might happen to a human. My question to anyone talking about bullet effectiveness is: Have you ever shot a living creature?
Frank Ettin
Administrator
You might think that, but do you have any evidence to support that claim?thibaultfelix40 said:
In any case, the physiological effects of any particular amount of tissue damage would be vastly different for a 200 pound man compared with a 20 pound dog. The man has greater depth, density and amount of musculature, heavier bones, larger organs and a much greater blood volume. If, for example, a bullet damages 0.5% (by weight) of a 20 pound animal's total tissue mass (about 1.6 ounces), that amount of tissue damage is only 0.05% of the 200 pound man's total tissue mass. And even 2% of the dog's tissue mass is still only 0.2% of the man's.
Understand that there are four ways in which shooting someone stops him:
- psychological -- "I'm shot, it hurts, I don't want to get shot any more."
- massive blood loss depriving the muscles and brain of oxygen and thus significantly impairing their ability to function
- breaking major skeletal support structures
- damaging the central nervous system.
Depending on someone just giving up because he's been shot is iffy. Probably most fights are stopped that way, but some aren't; and there are no guarantees.
Breaking major skeletal structures can quickly impair mobility. But if the assailant has a gun, he can still shoot. And it will take a reasonably powerful round to reliably penetrate and break a large bone, like the pelvis.
Hits to the central nervous system are sure and quick, but the CNS presents a small and uncertain target. And sometimes significant penetration will be needed to reach it.
The most common and sure physiological way in which shooting someone stops him is blood loss -- depriving the brain and muscles of oxygen and nutrients, thus impairing the ability of the brain and muscles to function. Blood loss is facilitated by (1) large holes causing tissue damage; (2) getting the holes in the right places to damage major blood vessels or blood bearing organs; and (3) adequate penetration to get those holes into the blood vessels and organs which are fairly deep in the body. The problem is that blood loss takes time. People have continued to fight effectively when gravely, even mortally, wounded. So things that can speed up blood loss, more holes, bigger holes, better placed holes, etc., help.
So as a rule of thumb --
- More holes are better than fewer holes.
- Larger holes are better than smaller holes.
- Holes in the right places are better than holes in the wrong places.
- Holes that are deep enough are better than holes that aren't.
- There are no magic bullets.
The bottom line is that a lower power cartridge with a smaller caliber bullet will make smaller holes and may not be able to as reliably penetrate to where those holes need to be in order to be most effective.
Or to put it another way, why would anyone think that a .22 will be enough when sometimes a .357 Magnum isn't necessarily enough. LAPD Officer Stacy Lim was shot in the chest with a .357 Magnum and still ran down her attacker, returned fire, killed him, survived, and ultimately was able to return to duty.
I realize that there may be reasons why one would need to use a sub-caliber cartridge for self defense -- extreme recoil sensitivity, a need for deep concealment, etc. But a .22lr is a long way from being an optimal choice.
Stressfire
New member
Naturally, but if a .22 is what the lady will carry - so be it until she is comfortable enough or ready for a more robust round
thibaultfelix40
New member
Frank, you and me are both animals. Yes I do think that what bullets do to animals is indicatove of what they do to people. To deny this is absurd. I was once violently attacked by a guinea fowl after I chopped its head off. Like many other hunters I have shot a deer strait through the chest and it never faltered just kept on running. This was with a 30/06. I personally like a 38 or 357 for SD. Long guns don't fit my lifestyle that well. Like some other old farts I am fond of my short 12 ga sxs and 30/30. All those tissue damage versous body weight ratios are without meaning. Numbers don't kill thugs but a gal with a 22 often does.
Frank Ettin
Administrator
So the fact that:thibaultfelix40 said:
thibaultfelix40 said:
FYI
First off, as the OP, Thanks for all the input. I am taking it all in, believe me. Just for clarification here is some information. 1) I agree with all who believe that she should be looking at something more powerful but since taking her CCW course where the police officer giving the class gave her somewhat of a thumbs up for carrying a 22 rimfire, I don't know squat
. She has always been recoil/noise sensitive whenever we have shot in the past and is determined to use a 22. What more can I say???? 2) She seems to be leaning towards a Walther. That is the pistol she shot in the class. 3) I have been doing a lot of talking to her about doing a lot of shooting, 22RF of course, and hope that once she gets comfortable she may be willing to upgrade in the power department. 4) I don't want to get into all the details but the nature of her job puts her at risk and she has already had someone arrested and convicted and the guy doing jail time as a result of threats on her life at the office in person and repeated threats over the phone. Again I wish to Thank all of you for giving some very good advice. I really appreciate you taking the time.
First off, as the OP, Thanks for all the input. I am taking it all in, believe me. Just for clarification here is some information. 1) I agree with all who believe that she should be looking at something more powerful but since taking her CCW course where the police officer giving the class gave her somewhat of a thumbs up for carrying a 22 rimfire, I don't know squat
. She has always been recoil/noise sensitive whenever we have shot in the past and is determined to use a 22. What more can I say???? 2) She seems to be leaning towards a Walther. That is the pistol she shot in the class. 3) I have been doing a lot of talking to her about doing a lot of shooting, 22RF of course, and hope that once she gets comfortable she may be willing to upgrade in the power department. 4) I don't want to get into all the details but the nature of her job puts her at risk and she has already had someone arrested and convicted and the guy doing jail time as a result of threats on her life at the office in person and repeated threats over the phone. Again I wish to Thank all of you for giving some very good advice. I really appreciate you taking the time.Stressfire
New member
Practice, Practice, Practice. Aside from being encouraging i don't see that there is anything you can do. If yours is anything like mine one she gets an idea in her head, there is no point in trying to convince her otherwise.
A .22 will do the job, provided with the right ammunition in a good platform and provided that she does her part. No, it is not a "one shot stopper" but what handgun bullet is (yeah yeah yeah, .45 all the way
). As far as the Walther (P22 I assume?) - meh. There are better and there are worse and opinions will vary. Might be a fun outing for both of you to go to a range that does rentals and let her take a few for a spinthibaultfelix40
New member
Mr.Ettin, thank ypu for introducing me to Stacy Lim, what a brave and capable police officer she is!! However, having carried a 22 for most of my 67 years and using them on animals from insects to wild pigs I know it hurts real bad. It is often said that it just makes things mad to shoot them with a 22. I have not observed this, they either ran or died. I haven't shot any people with a 22 but I have faced down a few.