American Gun makers going down hill

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Ruger?? Really?? Missed all those recalls lately??
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No, I didn't miss any of them.

Ruger, unlike some manufacturers will make it right. I guess you missed the "after sale customer support" part of my post.

Granted it would be better if Ruger didn't have those recalls. However it's better than them saying, "Thank you for buying our product, but any issues with the gun is your problem now." Also, IIRC the recalls pertained to handguns and not rifles.

Biker
 
It's hard to buy a Savage if what you want is a Guide Gun lever in 45-70!

I just recently bought a new 1895 GBL. I wanted a short 45-70 lever action. I liked the look of the blued metal and the dark laminate stock. So I couldn't buy an old one!

I've hand cycled my new rifle quite a few times, looked it over, took out the ejector, and cleaned everything. I don't see anything obviously wrong. Still don't have any 45-70 ammo or reloading stuff so no shooting yet!

Gregg
 
Honestly it seems to me quality control is a thing of the past with a growing number of manufactures, I've purchased 3 Savage rifles in past 3 years two had to be returned for work, One serious one minor,on the up side I was treated very good and the repaired products are super accurate.

I think it simply about volume sales if a bad item gets out the door the customer can return for repairs perhaps we the consumer are the quality control.

Recently purchased a Thompson Center precision hunter best out of the box fit and finish I've seen in years plus it super accurate, down side for me I heard they sold out to smith & Wesson.
 
Want to know who is to blame? Look in the mirror. It is all of us gunbuyers. At one time consumers demanded quality. Today all consumers want is the cheapest price. Not just with guns, but everything.

If Winchester finds a way to save $5 on a gun Remington has to find a way to save $10 to compete. Years ago gunmakers were in a race to produce the best gun they could. Today it is a competition to see who can produce the cheapest gun they make that will still be acceptable.

Gunmakers still produce some quality guns, but buyers leave them setting on the shelves. They would rather spend $50 less, then complain about the quality.
 
American companies pay more in one hour for labor than the Chinese do in a week. Way too many folks come on here and brag about some cheap piece of Chinese gun they bought for next to nothing and then complain when the US companies can't compete - so they try. But the only way to do that is cut EVERY corner they have to keep the price as low as possible. You are your own worst enemy in that regard.

You want high quality? it doesn't come cheap, especially from a US maker - either be willing to pay for it, or settle for less.
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well said. this makes me think of companies like Walmart which I think will be the death of the US. everyone that shops at Walmart does so because their stuff is cheap. this includes everything from groceries to clothing to firearms. and where does Walmart source a lot of their product? yep, from China. what consumers are getting in return is a poor excuse for product but also an unwillingness to invest in a more expensive yet durable product. we've become a society of throwaway goods because it's unfathomable to pay more for something that could last us many years. I'm a fairly nitpicky consumer so I tend to research every little thing before I buy it, especially if it's expensive. but I have no problems parting with my hard earned cash if I know a particular product is well made, including firearms.
 
Though it is nice to buy American made products, in some cases free trade between foreign countries has made America the most powerful country in the world. The reason we can afford (whether we choose to pay for it or not) American made products is because we have taken advantage of foreign trade goods.
 
Everything has its price, especially quality. If you want quality; pay for it. A rifle that just costs as much as a dozen cases of beer can hardly be expected to have hours of skilled craftmanship involved, including a stellar quality control.

If you get a Freedom Arms revolver, you will not be disappointed and the prices of Anschütz rifles reflect the quality that you get.
 
Oneounceload, the answer is a resounding "YES. RUGER." In my immediate family, we have over 40 ruger firearms. Only one has ever had to go back to the company. My LCP; which was produced & purchased before the ink dried on the first gun rag write-up. Approximately six months after I bought it, I recieved a notice of a possible recall. Checked my serial # on ruger's website & indeed it needed to go in. They mailed me a pre-paid box and their turn around time was less than three weeks. While they had it, they upgraded my manual slide stop to one with deeper serrations for easier manipulation for free even though it wasn't part of the recall. When they sent it back, they included a ruger hat, a spare magazine, and two extended magazine floorplates along with a letter of apology for the inconvenience they caused me. Imagine that...an apology from big ole ruger to little nobody me. Not to mention an extra fifty bucks worth of goodies to boot.
That gesture told me that ruger appreciates my business & genuinely wants to continue earning it in the future. With service like they gave me, I'm happy to oblige them.
 
I think the reason people shop at wal-mart is becouse the unions in this country have driven the price on domestic goods through the roof, and that includes guns. No one can afford american made. Big corporations have bought up these gun companies and do their best to make it as cheap as possible, with parts bought from china and assembled in the US. I dont buy clothes at wal-mart, but I do buy groceries that were made in america, I buy guns that were made in america, I but ammo that was made in america. All at one place. Wal-mart. You got a crappy gun? Blame a union or a corporation, not wal-mart. As crappy as the economy is right now I doubt I would be eating as good as I do if it wasnt for wal-mart.
 
oneounceload said:
American companies pay more in one hour for labor than the Chinese do in a week. Way too many folks come on here and brag about some cheap piece of Chinese gun they bought for next to nothing and then complain when the US companies can't compete - so they try. But the only way to do that is cut EVERY corner they have to keep the price as low as possible. You are your own worst enemy in that regard.

You want high quality? it doesn't come cheap, especially from a US maker - either be willing to pay for it, or settle for less.
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While that rings TRUE and I will totally AGREE with you that just about everything you buy now gets made by practically slave labour in China that quality manufacturers in Western countries have to compete with. Besides a couple of AK, a bolt action 22 and a 1911 handgun clones please show me WHERE all the bolt action centerfire and lever action rim and centerfire rifles that are coming out of China? If a number of the American arms makers can make a quality bolt action, lever action rifle at a decent price that doesn't give anyone any problems and if it does they have good customer and after sales service then the others should as well, NO EXCUSES. Then why don't they? I will tell you why GREED. Compaired to other American manufacturers that really do have to compete with China like say American Tackle manufacturers, Gun makers in America have never had it so good!
 
I agree 100%. I would gladly pay more money for better made American rifles. The big gun companies' obsession with low price points at the cost of quality is astounding to me. Look at the thread about how high end AR rifles are hard to find. People are lining up to buy high quality rifles while low cost ones sit on store racks gathering dust. Slow down production, give craftsmen a chance to build great rifles, and they will sell out. Reputations spread quickly on the internet today.
 
I think the reason people shop at wal-mart is becouse the unions in this country have driven the price on domestic goods through the roof, and that includes guns. No one can afford american made. Big corporations have bought up these gun companies and do their best to make it as cheap as possible, with parts bought from china and assembled in the US. I dont buy clothes at wal-mart, but I do buy groceries that were made in america, I buy guns that were made in america, I but ammo that was made in america. All at one place. Wal-mart. You got a crappy gun? Blame a union or a corporation, not wal-mart. As crappy as the economy is right now I doubt I would be eating as good as I do if it wasnt for wal-mart.
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I would hardly blame unions for the increase in prices for domestic goods. even if what you say were true, wouldn't you feel better knowing that you're helping to keep jobs in this country and that you're helping someone earn a liveable wage? it isn't that people can't afford US made goods, it's that a lot of people refuse to pay more for US made goods. at the end of the day it will always be about how much money can one save, not the quality of the product i'm buying. I don't like having to pay more money for product if I don't have to either, but the vast majority of consumer goods out there is cheap garbage made in China (or some other 3rd world country), including the clothes we wear and some of the food we eat.

and correct me if i'm wrong but Walmart were caught up in their own snafus for allegedly being union busters, engaging in racial discrimination, gender discrimination, etc, etc. it's ironic that you cast blame on unions and corporations and shop at Walmart: Walmart is a corporation.

I will say though that there are gun companies out there that make quality guns overseas. Browning and some Weatherby's are made in Japan (I think Mark V's are US made), which I consider great quality. Winchester's are now made in South Carolina and it sounds like FN has been doing a great job at quality control ever since they took over. I rarely read any bad reviews of the new Winchester firearms.
 
I agree with most posts in here. It's not that you can't buy great American made products,it's just that they are far and few in between these days. There are thousands of great craftsman in this country,but unfortunatly they do not own the company they work for and are bound by company laws. I am a pround American as we all are,but lets look at the ugly side of the story. I(like you) am willing to give you a very hard days work,,But i want great pay to go along with that work. As some one stated in a post--We are a greedy country. We want he best pay,best deals,best products with the least amount of effort. Look at cars as a check point. If you look at ratings,top 10 cars,You need to go all the way down to # 7 (i think it was) before the first American car comes into the picture.
Walmart is not the issue we all are the issue,our greed and our wants. In America,,Pay has never been in line with Quality here. Sad but true. We are fat,over payed,underworked people,Me being one of them. And the foreign countrys know this and are killing us. Big Corp's are buying up mom and dad companys and all they want is the money. There is another post going on in here on used guns and people buying them. Old guns were built by mom's and dad's(quality) All makes sense to me.

As for Union's..There was a need for them 30 years ago,now days they are nothing but money hungry people. They are good at keeping some one that is harmfull to a company working there. Union's are a has been in my mind.
 
Walmart is not the issue we all are the issue,our greed and our wants. In America,,Pay has never been in line with Quality here. Sad but true. We are fat,over payed,underworked people,Me being one of them. And the foreign countrys know this and are killing us.
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the term 'greed' is so ubiquitous these days, but I tend to look at the big wigs at the top who are earning multi-million dollar salaries as being guilty of greed, rather than the blue collar worker trying to earn a decent living. the foreign markets are definitely hurting us, especially when it comes to cheap labor, cheap product and in some cases, a better educated work force (like India and China).

As for Union's..There was a need for them 30 years ago,now days they are nothing but money hungry people. They are good at keeping some one that is harmfull to a company working there. Union's are a has been in my mind.
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but without unions none of us would enjoy our weekends or child labor laws or a lot of other things we take for granted.
 
It's all about greed, bottom line and stock growth. Some years back I worked for a large company as a quality control inspector(not firearms) we made top quality products at some point ownership/engineers changed and I was told by a young engineer he was not interested in quality just getting the product out the door and gamble on the consumer returning the product, I left within the year, not saying all companies do this but IMO it has been a growing trend in the past 20 years. Different mind set, less values, standards, morals however you wish to view it the end results are the same.:(
 
but without unions none of us would enjoy our weekends or child labor laws or a lot of other things we take for granted

gaseousclay--I agree 100% with that. It is basically the point i was making.I am part of that group:(. Don't you dare take my Vacation,Health Ins,Sick Leave,Bonuses,401,Retierment,Christmas Parties,Ect,Ect away from me. I deserve them---Right??..We have been raised that way and now unfortunatly it is in our blood stream and we feel we deserve all this. This is why American Products cost so much,It's not that they are better,it's just that you have to pay my wage and my benny's. One has to wonder,If a total crash of the markets and economy would really be that bad,or would it in the long run put us in our place. What would it be like if this world(us) had to fend for ourselfs:eek:. I for one would die, I don't hunt,I don't fish any more. And what is this thing called walking:p. Shoot me now and get it over with:D
 
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Ruger has had a lot of recalls. If you take note they were factory recalls, not govt. or court ordered recals. Ruger doesn't claim not to make mistakes. They do want return customers and seem to care about our satifaction.
As far as quality...I bought a new stainless Single Six last year, I had conserns about trigger pull. It turns out it is almost as nice as my "Flatgate" almost. Fit and finish is very nice, and the more I look at it the better I like it.
I do think that the folks at the Remm. outfit are haveing growing pains. I don't think that their stuff is JUNK. I'v bought an H&R Buffalo Classic, and a Marlin 338 ME and am very happy with both of them. I have some guns from overseas, and quite a few U.S.A. built ones. I'm not writeing off our American companys. I sure as $&!^ am no going to bash them.
 
jmr40 said it pretty good.
I have a Marlin 795 I bought a few years ago. It's been a good rifle that has seen lots of use (many trips to the range with Boy Scouts on this one, I can't count how many bulk boxes of cheap ammo it has gone through). It's a good rifle, for $139 it's actually a great rifle. Now they are $99 after rebate. You have to wonder where you can trim $40 off an already low cost rifle and still be able to make any money without losing quality. To bad, I really like my Marlins. I picked up a 336 a couple years ago and it's been a really good gun. And my Marlin bolt action .22 magnum bought quite a few years ago is still my favorite rifle to shoot. I do want one of their 1894C's, hope they keep it together and straighten out the quality. It was better when Marlin was Marlin. When ever a company gets acquired, worker pride is one of the biggest casualties and worker pride is the biggest quality control there is. No ISO9000 can substitute for that.
 
Rob3
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I agree 100%. I would gladly pay more money for better made American rifles.
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Get a Cooper rimfire rifle, you will find no finer one! And you will have a chance to spend your extra money - and then some.
 
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