Alternatives when you can't carry?

Oh God....

While I'd love to say Martial Arts is you best choice (helps keep you healthy too) Unfortunatly this is not true for most.

Why? Because most people attend a 1 1/2 hour class 2 times a week. Thats 3 hours a week. Lets think about this a bit.

The average highschol wrestler practices for 2 hours a day 5 days a week. I'd go so far as to say that 17 year old senior would kick the snot out of your karate/Jujitsu/etc. There is just not enough time to become proficient in martial arts unless you make a lifestile out of it.

I can vouch that karate does not beat wresteling, Got into a friendly bet with a guy at a party (I was 18 and 140 lbs he was 23 and 180ish). He had dozens karate trophies aroung his place (hed been doing karate since he was a kid). He kicked the crap out of me standing up, but the second I got him on the groung it was game over. That was out of somone who was extreamly proficient at karate.

Peperspray, tazer/pocket knife are generally the second best choices.

But the best by far: SITUATIONAL AWARNESS!!! See them coming, get out of the way!
 
I guess I had the best of both worlds. I wrestled varsity in college and took Judo while in USAF. Of course, those were my younger days. Now, at 75, I depend heavily on weapons, as well a large dose of treachery, guile, and dirty tricks. :D
 
bk688, while I don't want to start an argument, you prove you are only half right. Like you said, it was a friendly bet, and thus he wasn't determined to outright break something or punch you in the throat. You are indeed right that many who practice arts that are solely upright lack skill on the ground. I myself am one of those but that has simply been availability to train.

From a personal standpoint, knowing both is important. More importantly knowing to defend on both the ground and standing and getting away safely. For me, ground fighting defeats the purpose. You are purposely staying in contact with your opponent and while on the ground you are more susceptible to attacks from other people. As well, I'd rather not be in a position where my opponent can slam my head into anything more solid. Mats aren't on every floor. Just my opinions. :D

Yes, martial arts take a long time to gain ranks or be proficient, but in reality that's only a mindset issue. Learning to punch, block, and kick are the basics, you need only these. Knees and elbows are the same. In ground fighting you learn the different positions and basic locks. Once you know them it's only practice that makes them work. Just like shooting, you may know how to do it, but it's practice that makes you good. On the other side of things, Modern Combatives are a more "no-nonsense" choice based solely on defense and made to be taught in a timely manner.
 
Staying fit and knowing how to fight......dirty.......real dirty.

(Credit to Irish for saying this first.)
 
The mental willingness to keep fighting and not give up is also an important tool, probably as much as martial skill. It doesn't take any skill to hit the groin, throat, eyes etc... It takes a willingness to harm, hurt, maim or kill your your attacker. To me, that's were fighting "dirty" comes into play.

It comes up in jiu-jitsu all the time, can you pull of the movements necessary when someone is attacking you. It's a lot tougher to submit or control someone when they are throwing punches with hostile intent. That's why it's best 90% of the time to keep yourself on your feet and control the fight from there if possible. Once your on the ground all sorts of bad things can happen, especially if more than one threats are present.
 
Pepper spray is my pick. Depending on state/local laws you may face restrictions on that, too; in NJ, for example, canisters with more than about 3 seconds' worth of spray time are about as legal as bazookas... so you'd pretty much be carrying the pepper spray equivalent of a single derringer. :rolleyes:

Make sure to get a can with a stream nozzle, though. You'll have to buy a few and practice aiming with them (~$10 a pop for the little ones), but they have more range and are much less susceptible to little problems like a change in the breeze turning your own weapon against you. Ergonomics are another consideration... some local laws might prohibit the 'scary weapon' looking things like Kimber's Pepper Blasters, or other canisters/sprayers that may or may not be easier to use.

A good, solid multitool also makes a superb fist-filler (most of them don't have quick-opening knives), but everyone should have one of those anyhow. Not having a multitool is like leaving home without your pants on. Mine is a Leatherman Sideclip- the predecessor of what is now being called the Wave (same basic set of tools, but no polymer inserts or locking tabs. Instead of those it had a pocket clip and in/cm marks so it could be used as a ruler when opened flat).

With multitools, though, you run the risk of turning into that guy/gal who everyone always asks for help doing silly little things they could have done themselves if they had the smarts to carry their own. You've been warned. :p

Whatever alternative(s) you settle on, try to find the least 'scary looking' ones you can. Chances are if you're in a place that won't let you CCW (college campus, crappy state, NYC, etc...) they'll bust your chops about anything that even remotely looks like it could be used as a weapon.
 
Honestly people should know how to fight, or at least throw a proper punch, and know how to shoot (and stuff) a takedown.

It is the most primal form of self-defense, and it is as important as any method, much moreso than a vast majority of others, imo.
 
Fox Labs stream Pepper spray and a very nice spring assisted opening stainless steel pocket knife. When carrying, it is a G-19 with Cor-Bon DPX.
 
Blackfeather, a reproduction hex head throwing hawk. 15 years at the rendezvous games and split cards and leaves pretty regular. I do not really carry it for protection, just adding my thoughts but, I would think it is something that would make a goon think twice.
 
Once your on the ground all sorts of bad things can happen, especially if more than one threats are present.
Click to expand...

There are times I like taking it to the ground, especially if someone is an equally good or better fighter than I am and has reach on me - I'm taking them down....and then I'll use whatever my opponent presents to me first. My preference is using chokes and smothering, if possible. Some folks prefer arm bars, groin attacks, taking out joints if possible.
 
flintshooter said:
Blackfeather, a reproduction hex head throwing hawk. 15 years at the rendezvous games and split cards and leaves pretty regular. I do not really carry it for protection, just adding my thoughts but, I would think it is something that would make a goon think twice.
Click to expand...

Nice, and impressive skill. I don't throw tomahawks, usually. I throw knives for the most part, still don't think I could be hitting cards. Then again I'm a bit out of practice lately. I prefer to fight with hawks, just my preference.
 
Taking it t the ground is all fine and dandy with a singular opponent, but not usually a good idea with multiple opponents or if the opponents friends are near.
 
My buddy once told me.his gramp used to take a length of pipe and.roll a newsnpaper around it, and it looked like a paper. Nobody reads a paper anymore but the point is, anything can be a weapon, or any weapon can be disquiesed (sp?). I always carry a pocket clip kne hand or assisted opening pocket knife. Not much more then a last dirch holly crap type weapon but usefull as hell for a million other things. Im a Marine and the most usefuk part of the MCMAP was the improvised weapons classes, what ever is at hand, can fill your hand. Be aware of your surroundings, what and who are n them, and how they can he used or manipulated to hinder and attack and effect an escape. Or, in rural southe1 english, drop ya a big ol' rock on that ****heads foot and run like hell, lol. The flashlight mentioned before is a geeat idea to, blind an assailent and if worst gets to worst, it can be an effective mpact weapon. Most have some form of ridges deaigned as an impact device. Remember, self defense means stopping and or deterring a threat, and the legal afterwords crap will demand reasonable action on your part at all times. On the other hand, at the end.of every day, Id take judgment by 12 then transportantion by 6
 
This is a handy to have close item where a firearm isn't allowed or not old enough to have a carry permit.
This will shoot a heavy stream up to 20 ft. and very little chance in it coming back at you.
And this isn't my idea! ;)
 

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Another fine product from our friends at Kimber:

http://store.kimberamerica.com/Products/tabid/67/CategoryID/21/Default.aspx


FAR better than any spray.
Likely better than any .380 for an instant stop.

Choice of guards in many finer penal establishments.


There's a more professional firearm-looking version that it the real professional choice, but these work great. Two shots, pyrotechnically projected, no chance of spraying yourself, and very accurate. More like a pistol than an aerosol.



Willie

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Wasp spray is not a good solution. It is a neurotoxin and dangerous. In some locales it is specifically illegal to use in any manner than intended. If you try to use it in a nonlethal situation and it does grievous harm - you won't look good.

Deliberately carrying it for a weapon would be frowned upon.

Search on the topic for references.
 
Remember folks that if you get yourself into a fight of any kind and especially if you use a weapon of any kind there will be consequences. The police might just come and arrest everyone then let the Prosecutor figure out the next steps. The jurisdiction I am in they run all serious assaults through a grand jury to determine the "next steps". Therefore, you want to avoid trouble. For example, I went to a movie theatre last night and when I pulled in there were some young characters who looked a bit thuggish (for a lack of a better word). So I drove right out the exit of the parking lot and found another movie theatre where I felt more comfortable. I know I can defend myself against these characters, but why would I want to try? I would rather just find another place to watch my movie.

So with that disclaimer stated I would say Fox Labs pepper spray is the best. If that doesnt distract someone then Im not sure what will. All of the departments here use it and its well known among many. If you do use it, then prepare to be scrutinized by the local authorities. You want to avoid using it...IMHO.
 
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