Went to a course this weekend and the instructor mentioned he would never fully trust an all metal firearm for his home defense gun. He said with metal on metal everything has to be running perfectly, lubed perfectly, cleaned perfectly etc or else the possibility of failure is dramatically increased. He obviously is a big fan of polymer guns, particularly the M&P and glock. I currently have a 1911 as my defense gun but was thinking before the course about moving to a CZ 75 for the increased rounds. I just like the feel of all metal but if there is any truth to what he is saying I guess I will need to make a change. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
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All metal reliability
- Thread starter tdgator
- Start date
g.willikers
New member
Hope he knows more about using guns than he does about the guns.
I have two CZ75 P-01 and will never get rid of them. They're NATO approved. I have most of the major brands (HK, Sig, Glock, S&W, Ruger, Beretta, etc... and of course the 2x CZ P-01). Ask him to school those 1911 owners about full metal guns.
Go get yourself a CZ and enjoy it.
Yg
Go get yourself a CZ and enjoy it.
Yg
Last edited:
Rattlehead
New member
As noted, polymer pistols run metal-on-metal. As much as I like them, you're not getting around the metal contact issue by going to polymer guns.
Concur with saleen - find another instructor who doesn't talk out of his 4th POC.
Concur with saleen - find another instructor who doesn't talk out of his 4th POC.
Hope he knows more about using guns than he does about the guns.
I thought the same thing as I was reading the op.
The Ruger P95 and P97 did not use metal inserts in the frames. I don't know about the new SR series, but Ruger proved that the metal in the frame wasn't always needed.
In my experience the more modern plastic guns are more reliable, certainly more durable than aluminum framed guns and at least the equal of steel framed guns. But not for the reasons cited.
In my experience the more modern plastic guns are more reliable, certainly more durable than aluminum framed guns and at least the equal of steel framed guns. But not for the reasons cited.
I can't imagine any gun to be more reliable and longer lasting than an al steel cz 75. even my cheap Turkish clones are simply amazing. eats thousands upon thousands of rounds and never even the tiniest of hiccups. it doesn't care the bullet weight, heavy charge/light charge/, point, flat or round profile. it amazes me week after week, I keep waiting for my first malfunction and it just hasn't happened.
all of my polymer guns have had at least one failure, even if it has been because it's a profile it didn't like or a charge it didn't like, but they have failed at least once under some kind of circumstance(even if it has been after 2000 or more rounds). I am not saying that doesn't mean they aren't reliable, I just think the CZ has them all beat, it's reliable 100% period for 5k or 6k, maybe even getting up to 7k. it doesn't care what kind of weird cast handload I am feeding it, it's going to feed, chamber and fire reliably every time. and do it more accurately on top of it. get that CZ and let people have their differing, albeit incorrect, opinions on the "best" kind of firearms
all of my polymer guns have had at least one failure, even if it has been because it's a profile it didn't like or a charge it didn't like, but they have failed at least once under some kind of circumstance(even if it has been after 2000 or more rounds). I am not saying that doesn't mean they aren't reliable, I just think the CZ has them all beat, it's reliable 100% period for 5k or 6k, maybe even getting up to 7k. it doesn't care what kind of weird cast handload I am feeding it, it's going to feed, chamber and fire reliably every time. and do it more accurately on top of it. get that CZ and let people have their differing, albeit incorrect, opinions on the "best" kind of firearms
the instructor mentioned he would never fully trust an all metal firearm
I would never fully trust that instructor.
buckhorn_cortez
New member
Went to a course this weekend and the instructor mentioned he would never fully trust an all metal firearm for his home defense gun. He said with metal on metal everything has to be running perfectly, lubed perfectly, cleaned perfectly etc or else the possibility of failure is dramatically increased.
Nobody started laughing uncontrollably after he said this? I'm surprised.
I'm certainly glad the U.S. Armed Forces have never used an all metal gun...
lee n. field
New member
Went to a course this weekend and the instructor mentioned he would never fully trust an all metal firearm for his home defense gun. He said with metal on metal everything has to be running perfectly, lubed perfectly, cleaned perfectly etc or else the possibility of failure is dramatically increased.
"And lo, there was great darkness for many decades, until the coming of the Blessed Gaston Glock..."
I don't think so. Go ahead and get your metal frame gun. You should be fine.
Walt Sherrill
New member
buckhorn cortez said:Nobody started laughing uncontrollably after he said this? I'm surprised.
They had already paid for the course. An instructor that opinionated would probably kick anyone out of the class who disagreed with him, or make his "learning" experience painful.
Hope the instruction was better than the opinions about what guns work best.
rt11002003
New member
I was thinking my H&K's were running metal to plastic. Then, I remembered the four little silver colored tabs on the frame. They actually look more like the foil in cigarette packages. But, I suppose H&K engineers know what they're doing.
sigarms228
New member
I have more than a few metal frame and poly frame pistols from SIG, HK, and Walther that have all run flawlessly for me through several thousand rounds between them.
I do however keep all my pistols well maintained especially in regards to proper lubing which IMHO is not all that hard with modern synthetic lubricants (Weaponshield, M-Pro 7 LPX, etc) both oils and grease that do not run off, burn off, or evaporate like older lubes may have.
I will say however that in my experience a metal frame pistol may be less reliable than a poly frame pistol if both are allowed to go almost bone dry as far as lube, but that would be stupid on the firearm owners part.
However over that last year I did go shooting with people who had problems with their metal frame pistols, a 1911 and Beretta 92F. When I examined each they were both bone dry. I always have lube in my range bag. A drop rubbed on the barrel exterior and a drop on each frame rails and then both ran perfect. Both however were very inexperienced and knew next to nothing about firearm maintenance.
I do however keep all my pistols well maintained especially in regards to proper lubing which IMHO is not all that hard with modern synthetic lubricants (Weaponshield, M-Pro 7 LPX, etc) both oils and grease that do not run off, burn off, or evaporate like older lubes may have.
I will say however that in my experience a metal frame pistol may be less reliable than a poly frame pistol if both are allowed to go almost bone dry as far as lube, but that would be stupid on the firearm owners part.
However over that last year I did go shooting with people who had problems with their metal frame pistols, a 1911 and Beretta 92F. When I examined each they were both bone dry. I always have lube in my range bag. A drop rubbed on the barrel exterior and a drop on each frame rails and then both ran perfect. Both however were very inexperienced and knew next to nothing about firearm maintenance.
Limnophile
New member
Amazing statement by that instructor. I can see a metal-framed pistol needing more maintenance than a polymer-framed counterpart, but not much more given that the home environment, with the exception of high humidity in the absence of air conditioning, is not exactly harsh.
Polymer frames flex when the pistol fires. I imagine enough firing cycles could result in a frame failure, but probably only long after the barrel and other metal parts wore out. Polymers can be degraded by exposure to UV radiation, but I can't envision a handgun seeing much sunlight. Even one that is carried openly daily in a sunny climate is going to have mostly just its grip exposed -- ever part of the frame that touches moving metal during the firing cycle is shaded by the slide or holster.
I'm willing to give the edge to a polymer-framed pistol needing less meticulous maintenance, but any instructor unwilling or unable to perform the minimum effort to maintain an all-metal home-defense pistol is someone who likely hasn't expended much effort in developing a philosophy of self defense worth emulating.
Polymer frames flex when the pistol fires. I imagine enough firing cycles could result in a frame failure, but probably only long after the barrel and other metal parts wore out. Polymers can be degraded by exposure to UV radiation, but I can't envision a handgun seeing much sunlight. Even one that is carried openly daily in a sunny climate is going to have mostly just its grip exposed -- ever part of the frame that touches moving metal during the firing cycle is shaded by the slide or holster.
I'm willing to give the edge to a polymer-framed pistol needing less meticulous maintenance, but any instructor unwilling or unable to perform the minimum effort to maintain an all-metal home-defense pistol is someone who likely hasn't expended much effort in developing a philosophy of self defense worth emulating.