Alec Baldwin update

Status
Not open for further replies.
It took 15min for first responders to arrive. Im in the inner city and that’s a long time here but can see why out in the sticks . 15min is a long time to be loosing blood . Not sure what if any medical personnel were on site for the movie . I’m sure there were people on set with basic first aid training but was that enough to stop the bleeding in general help from death .

The cause of death was gun shot wound , that could be anything internally being damaged . Do we have more info on the cause of death ie bleed to death , organ failure do to… etc ?
 
stagpanther said:
D
I may have missed it--did she actually say that?
Click to expand...

I'm going by memory on that one, but somebody said it in one of the interviews. It may have been in the 2nd interview with her lawyer present.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-ZBFXmjqiQ&t=472s

The police were told that she had "removed the weapon to secure it" and "removed the cartridges to inspect them". She had no business touching anything, but I think she was panicking. She knew she was in trouble.
 
If you are interested in this case,I suggest going to youtube and searching for
"What really happened .....Rust" 60 Minutes Australia"

Or just use this link. https://youtu.be/odclVcX-FFc (60 Minutes Australia)

On the immediate aftermath of the shooting, the People on location were discussing Halyna's injury. It was said the entry wound was in the right underarm area. The exit wound was lower left shoulder blade.

That describes a bullet path that would be difficult to survive (IMO) even if this accident had occurred in the waiting room of a hospital ER. Connect the "entry" and "exit" with a straight line and I believe the heart,aorta,etc are in harm's way. To even access the trauma would (it seems to me) require an immediate bilateral thoracotomy.

An irrelevant sidebar: Footage is shown of Alec Baldwin posed in the church,head low,arms crossed ,a dark figure . From under his lapels,he produces the pistol levels it and points it.
Note Alec Baldwins grasp on the pistol and placement of his trigger finger.
I observe the finger on the trigger being an integral part of grasping the gun.
If you go to the 60 Minutes video,you can see it at 13 minutes 30 seconds in.

Which calls into question Baldwin's credibility when he says "I did not pull the trigger. I would never point a gun and pull the trigger"

IMO, that tells me he is AWARE having his finger on the trigger is something to be DENIED.

With a typical Colt SAA clone, it takes very little pressure on the trigger to prevent the sear from engaging the hammer if he hammer is drawn back with the finger on the trigger. Slip the hammer and the gun,if loaded (or not?) will fire.

Its an irrelevant red herring detail . It doesn't really matter. "Pulling the trigger" is not the sum total event that killed Halyna.

IMO,its the sort of claim a person who knows he bears guilt would use to deny responsibility. Alec, when you are trying to convince me of your innocence, don't lie to me when I can watch the video.

It may be that your incompetence and lack of awareness was part of the negligent discharge, but the trigger was pulled.
 
Last edited:
"Pulling the trigger" is not the sum total event that killed Halyna.
Click to expand...


It is, however the "trigger" event without which the accident would not have happened. Every accident is a chain of events, and there is no question the person responsible for putting "a" live round (still waiting to hear if there was only one live round) in the gun has a share of the responsibility.

SO DOES every individual who could have and should have ensured the gun did not have live rounds in it. All that being true, I place the greatest responsibility on the person who was holding the gun, and responsible for where it was pointed when it was fired.

While he says he didn't pull the trigger, I am certain he must have, OR was holding the trigger back when he cocked and then released the hammer. What I can believe is that Baldwin could honestly believe he didn't pull the trigger because he does not remember pulling the trigger. It is possible....

HOWEVER it has been reported that Baldwin has said the gun went off when he was attempting to lower the hammer, and if true, simply further pins the ultimate resposibilty on him.

As I see it, the root cause was the poor conduct of ops, which allowed a live round into the gun on the set. Contributing factors are all the people who played a part in that not verifying the gun was safe. The actual accident is the fault of the person who FIRED the gun.

We'll see what the court determines....
 
Yes only one live round was in the gun that anyone can say because it was unloaded . There were 5 total live rounds maybe 6 found on set total . It’s described in detail in both probable cause documents. I don’t remember exactly but 1 was in the gun ( fatal shot ) 1 was in Baldwins holster 1 was in Reeds bandolier at least 2 were found on the cart where the guns were stored/loaded/unloaded during use so that’s 5 . I forget the rest of the areas if any maybe 1 in the box of dummy rounds but they seemed to be in random-ish areas . That said if she unloaded the gun either on the cart or brought the gun and unloaded ammo to the cart that could explain the cartridges on the cart found later . If so that makes it possible there were as many as 3 live rounds in the gun .
 
However, do consider the possibility that the shooting was a HUGE shock on both an intellectual and emotional level, and often people in shock do not act the same way as someone who is not.
Click to expand...
I've seen shootings and accidents with fatalities--I would say that it's the rule--rather than the exception--that people get amped up with adrenaline and emotionally erratic, almost always having a different account of what happened even when they witnessed the same thing.
 
If so that makes it possible there were as many as 3 live rounds in the gun .
Click to expand...

Now that brings up an interesting point for the folks who enjoy conspiracy theories. Consider this, IF the gun had been properly fully loaded, with live ammo, there would be 5 live rounds. Only one in the gun can be proven, but if they gun had been simply loaded and left loaded, and then got used on the set, there would have been 5.

BUT, if it had only been loaded with 3, then it is (remotely) possible it was a deliberate act, and the first chamber to come up under the hammer was empty or contained a dummy, THAT would give the actor "playing" with the gun the false sense of security that the gun wasn't loaded, as the first time they "dry fired" it, there would only have been the click of an empty gun, and that would encourage futher horseplay with the "unloaded" gun. Which would result in an AD the next time the hammer was dropped....

Possible? I think so, lots of things are remotely possible. Likely?? there has been no mention of any evidence suggesting deliberate sabotage, nor are the authorities persuing that idea, so I doubt its likely, but I'm sure someone would be happy if Baldwin got in trouble due to an AD on the set. The fact that a death and serious injury resulted turns what might have been a malicious prank into a serious CRIME.
 
RobAndrew said:
I also think part of her demeanor is due to guilt. She knows she screwed up. The first PD on scene of the shooting asks for the gun, and is told Hanna took it . She took the gun from the scene of the shooting (while there are two bodies laying on the floor) and took it back to the trailer. She removed all the rounds from the weapon. Removing a gun from a crime scene, I'm speechless.
Click to expand...
You are assuming that she understood that it was the scene of a crime. I doubt very much that she did so. Without any intention of defending her actions with regard to her job, I nonetheless feel fairly certain that in her mind -- and everyone's mind on the set -- it was a horrible accident.
 
Somebody brought live ammo onto the set. How and why will be accounted for eventually. The case will likely hinge on who bears final authority for ensuring the live ammo doesn't make it into the prop gun. Gonna be a lot of finger-pointing and deflection. The armorer's ignorance and lack of experience actually helps her IMO as her defense might use this as a foil to blame other's for not ensuring adequate standards. Whether that helps her escape any potential culpability for live ammo finding its way into the gun is another matter.
 
For those old enough to remember, I am reminded of the Pueblo incident . . . and the final bottom line:

> And the number one thing you may not have known about the Pueblo is what
> happened to the men when they returned. Despite receiving a hero's welcome
> on December 24, the euphoria did not last. That same day, the Navy created
> a board of inquiry. Hearings started in January, involving the testimony of the crew.
>
> Commander Bucher and Lieutenant Harris were recommended to be court-martialed.
> However, the public was appalled at this, and the Navy backed down and threw out
> the charges, stating that the Pueblo crew had suffered enough.
>
> At the court of inquiry, a journalist asked an Admiral on the board to explain who was
> ultimately to blame. The Admiral responded "there's blame enough for everybody."
https://web.mit.edu/SSP/seminars/wed_archives02fall/lerner.htm
 
HiBC said:
Note Alec Baldwins grasp on the pistol and placement of his trigger finger.
I observe the finger on the trigger being an integral part of grasping the gun.

Which calls into question Baldwin's credibility when he says "I did not pull the trigger. I would never point a gun and pull the trigger"

It may be that your incompetence and lack of awareness was part of the negligent discharge, but the trigger was pulled.
Click to expand...

I agree. I don't think the gun magically discharged without the trigger being pulled. Baldwin may be telling the truth in that he never deliberately pulled the trigger, but I strongly suspect that he depressed the trigger when he grasped the gun. It wouldn't take much force with the gun uncocked. Then he cocked the hammer and let it go while still grasping the trigger and bang.
 
I realize this is a "What if a frog had wings" question.
I was watching vid of the minute or two before the discharge that killed Halyn.
Baldwin is posed in the church.

He is practicing ,drawing the pistol and presenting it,over and over..

It appears his trigger finger is part of his grasp on the pistol. I don't think the sear would have engaged the hammer notch. (of course,that is my speculation. I do not claim it is fact)

Is he slipping the hammer each time? Does anyone see the hammer remain at full cock?
Some contend there may have been three deadly rounds.
How do you practice drawing,thumbing the hammer ,repeat while holding the gun firmly with the trigger finger without discharging the firearm during the practice?

Its just another question.
 
Aguila Blanca said:
You are assuming that she understood that it was the scene of a crime. I doubt very much that she did so. Without any intention of defending her actions with regard to her job, I nonetheless feel fairly certain that in her mind -- and everyone's mind on the set -- it was a horrible accident.
Click to expand...

True, I can see somebody thinking "accident" and not crime scene after a shooting like that.

But a police investigation is a normal next step when people are shot. The number of people handling the fired weapon and the cartridges in that gun immediately after the shooting is unreal. The last count I get is at least 3 people handled the gun/ammo, all initiated by Hanna.

I think this mishandling of the weapon is going to come back to haunt her at the trial.

And I think Hanna knew where the live ammo came from.
 
HiBC said:
Some contend there may have been three deadly rounds.
Click to expand...

I bet the Detectives don't even know for certain. Three different people handled the gun and the cartridges immediately after the shooting. Hanna, Sarah and a guy named Dave.

When the police finally got their hands on the weapon, there were other live cartridges on the cart and they had to take Hanna's word for it as to what was previously in the cylinder. She admitted to the spent live cartridge coming out of the weapon, so they have at least one confirmed live round in the gun.
 
It’s a good question, don’t know . If you pull the hammer all the way back it rotates the cylinder to the next chamber . Half way rotates it half way and locks the hammer at half cock and that’s the position you load or unload the firearm it also allows the cylinder to spin freely . I was just over at a friend’s the other day that has a Colt single action army in 45colt . I manipulated it several times thinking of this case and thread . I’m going to swing back by there and do a deeper dive on the action and will report back .
 
My question has always been ... What is and how did live ammo get onto a film set and who put it in the gun .
Having blanks on set is dangerous enough ... having live ammo on set is just insane .

Who brought the live ammo on the set and how did it get in a gun that was to be used in action shots.

How many episodes of "Gunsmoke" were filmed ... How many people were shot and killed on the set of "Gunsmoke" ... few and None .
Something is strange about having live ammo in a gun while shooting a movie !

Gary
 
I don’t think its been completely confirmed who brought the ammo on set . In that 60min episode , that was brought up . I believe it was said Ms Reed asked ( don’t remember) the original armorer or the ammo company that supplied the blanks and dummies if they would give here live ammo as well and they refused . It seems reasonable to assume Ms Reed either asked someone else or bought them her self . Regardless as far as I can tell it was Ms Reed that was pushing to get live ammo for what ever reason .
 
It has not been confirmed who supplied the live ammo found on the set. Unless someone voluntarily says they did it, we may never know, even if the question is asked at trial (and I expect it will be)

Possibly it was the armorer. Possibly it was someone else, and the ammo wound up in the armorer's possession. WE DON'T KNOW...

Regardless as far as I can tell it was Ms Reed that was pushing to get live ammo for what ever reason .
Click to expand...

The reason for live ammo is obvious, so the guns can be fired. It is known that guns were used with live ammo OFF THE SET in the surrounding desert for recreation (or possibly familiarization) but we don't know at this time, officially, who did it, who was involved or who authorized it, OR who ignored it....

Things have been written and reported on tv giving several different and conflicting accounts of who did what, when, and with what.

I have seen reports that the Armorer was NOT present on the set until AFTER the accident. I have also seen reports stating that the armorer was there, loaded the gun and handed it to Baldwin.

Obviously both cannot be true....

What ever the actual truth is, the closest we are going to come to it is what ever the sworn testimony at the trial states is the truth.

Until we get that, it's all speculation and the "smoke & mirrors spin" of different perspectives from people with widely differing agendas.

The only facts that seem consistent with all reports is a woman was killed, a man injured and the gun that did it was in Baldwin's hands when it happened.
 
I don't think it will be all that hard to figure out how live ammo got on the set--there will be a scramble to throw someone else under the bus revealing a timeline of what happened when. Gutierrez is in a tough spot; all those paths lead to her in some way.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top