Al Gore uses 18,400 kWh of electricity per month?

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Actually, since this is a discussion about Gore's alleged hypocrisy, I think the whole "invented the internet" thing is fair play.

Of course, this is not in question. Gore apologists never said he invented the internet, his detractors did.

I don't much care whether it was actual voting on the house floor or conversations in the hallway. It is clear from the guy who can best be described as the father of the Internet, Vint Cerf. It was a collaboration, Vint was one of many. Not even HE invented the thing.

Here is Vint's take.. he was there, he knows best:
Vint on Gore inventing the Internet

Hey, I still think it's funny to call Gore the Inventor of the Internet, but I know it's not an accurate term, and he never said it.

It's MORE funny that people still say he said it...:rolleyes:
 
It was an excellent analogy, because it doesn’t matter what Gore claimed, it only pertains to what Gore’s apologists claimed.

Yeah, it wasn't very good. It was trolling and too recently on the heels of Dr. Rice's poor statements comparing Saddam/Iraq with Hitle/Germany.

Can you show me where Gore apologists claim he invented the internet? I think you will find that all quotes come from people such as yourself, people that dislike the guy and are misstating things in your blind rage. Here's my side: Inventor? False, where's yours?
 
Hey, I still think it's funny to call Gore the Inventor of the Internet, but I know it's not an accurate term, and he never said it.

Oh yeah, it's still hilarious even if you like the guy. It makes great material for jokes. It's just not something anybody with half a brain should take seriously, or use as an actual point in an argument...because it's pretty much indefensible.

But the person who brought it up originally did.

towerclimber37 said:
and for those of you who defend him..its ok..you'll win in the end right? I mean, you're supporting the guy that invented the internet. I suggest though that you don't attempt to belittle someone for ridiculing an idiot..it'll leave YOUR intelligence in question.

I'm thinking to myself, "it's alright, he could just be poking fun at the guy..."

towerclimber37 said:
and before you Jump on me and say that "al gore never said he invented the internet"...this is a TRANSCRIPT of his 2000 interview with Wolfe Blitzer.

"...Nope! We've got a live one here!"
 
SecDef said:
Here is Vint's take

That's quite a marvelous piece of fiction there! Was WorlCom doing advocacy puff pieces for the Gore campaign in 2000?

Who is Vint and what was his relation with MCIWorldCom in 2000?
 
That's quite a marvelous piece of fiction there! Was WorlCom doing advocacy puff pieces for the Gore campaign in 2000?

Please list out which parts of fiction. I'd be interested in seeing hard facts rather than your take. It doesn't matter what the motivation for the piece was as long as it is factually correct and not mis-representative of the truth.

Who is Vint and what was his relation with MCIWorldCom in 2000?

He wrote the TCP/IP protocol. He's a geek. Feel free to spend 5 seconds and get off your butt to find out. Here, I'll give you a hand with a link to his wikipedia entry to get you started.

I applaud your questioning sources, but I scorn your lack of support in refuting the truth.
 
#'s 16 and 17 seem to be at the crux of the complaint that Gore isn't practicing what he preaches. I suggest that comparing him to the average american's home doesn't fit the whole picture of whether he is not leading by example.

How about the heated swimming pool and gas lamps lighting his driveway?

Still seems like his paying for green credits should encourage utilities to build more capacity...even if it's other utilities that do it. Could utilities "trade" green power to bring it from nearby areas where, say, wind or solar is more feasible to those where it's more difficult to build? If people like Gore are willing to pay excessive amounts of money for this, shouldn't somebody step in to fill demand?

No one is heavily building green power right now because 1) it doesn't produce the power needed and 2) the environmentalists pushing for it in the abstract refuse to allow it in actuality as it requires lots of "visual pollution." They don't like wind farms or solar farms ruining their view. Combine those problems with the fact that solar panel production involves heavy metals and toxic chemicals, and it's not worth the time or energy, no pun intended.

There is really only one answer to these issues, and it involves conservation and nuclear energy. Gore doesn't practice the first one, and doesn't support the second.
 
I think everyone is missing the point. Al Gore jumped on the global warming scam because he figured out how to make a buck from it. I don't think even he believes his own BS. His lifestyle reveals this "inconvient truth".
 
Gore didn't claim to invent the internet; he just said he was responsible for creating it. This claim is, itself, rather dubious as the internet was beginning to evolve prior to his coming to Congress, or passing the legislation he credits with creating the internet.

I think everyone is missing the point. Al Gore jumped on the global warming scam because he figured out how to make a buck from it. I don't think even he believes his own BS. His lifestyle reveals this "inconvient truth".

Agreed. People forget that Gore was pro-gun and pro-life until 1988, when he sought the Democratic presidential nomination. At that time, he switched to pro-gun control and pro-abortion in order to compete on a national level.
 
How about the heated swimming pool and gas lamps lighting his driveway?

Who the what now? Are you adding to the #17 - Consume less, which I already said is the bone of contention, or what?

No one is heavily building green power right now because 1) it doesn't produce the power needed and 2) the environmentalists pushing for it in the abstract refuse to allow it in actuality as it requires lots of "visual pollution." They don't like wind farms or solar farms ruining their view. Combine those problems with the fact that solar panel production involves heavy metals and toxic chemicals, and it's not worth the time or energy, no pun intended.

There is really only one answer to these issues, and it involves conservation and nuclear energy. Gore doesn't practice the first one, and doesn't support the second.

Your #1 makes absolutely no sense... power is power. You can sell extra solar power from your house back into the grid... Same thing these "green" energy companies do.

#2, yeah, I agree that solar turbines being shutdown because birds keep landing on them and esplodin' makes their arguments silly.
 
I think everyone is missing the point. Al Gore jumped on the global warming scam because he figured out how to make a buck from it. I don't think even he believes his own BS. His lifestyle reveals this "inconvient truth".

Wow. Welcome to page one of the thread.

That's quite a marvelous piece of fiction there! Was WorlCom doing advocacy puff pieces for the Gore campaign in 2000?

Who is Vint and what was his relation with MCIWorldCom in 2000?

The fact that you didn't take the twenty seconds it would have taken to see for yourself who Vint Cerf (and Robert Khan, who the message was apparently co-written by) is suddenly leads me to question whether your previous comments still have any merit.

What are you claiming is fiction, by the way? Gore's involvement (leadership role, actually) in the High Performance Computing and Communications Act in 1991? It's documented. Are you suggesting that he wasn't involved at all prior to that? That seems unlikely. And in 1991 the "true potential" of the internet had not quite yet "borne fruit." EDIT: Was the WWW even around in 1991? I know it certainly didn't in any way resemble its current form back then. Even in 1993, when I first got "real"access to the internet (before that I had had only email access), it bore little resemblance to the internet of today.
 
Agreed. People forget that Gore was pro-gun and pro-life until 1988, when he sought the Democratic presidential nomination. At that time, he switched to pro-gun control and pro-abortion in order to compete on a national level.

OMG, actual facts, you'll probably be thrown off these boards soon for this offense. :D

You are indeed correct. And I have yet to find a politician (or even an american) that believes exactly in the same things and has the same priorities at 60 as they do at 21.

Does that make him a hypocrite?
 
SecDef said:
Please list out which parts of fiction. I'd be interested in seeing hard facts rather than your take. It doesn't matter what the motivation for the piece was as long as it is factually correct and not mis-representative of the truth.

Stated again for clarity, I am questioning Gore's statement directly; to wit, that he in any way facilitated the ARAPNet effort. Congressman and Senators do this all the time; jump aboard successful defense R&D efforts even though they had no import to their development. In the case of DARPA and its ARAPNet effort, I seriously doubt he was even aware of it until the potential was out; the cat out of the bag if you will. Again, so you understand, I doubt Gore, or any Congressman or Senator for that matter, had anything technical at all to do with ARPANet and its funding at the time, as it came under SecDef approval as do most DARPA research efforts, many which were 'black' programs. Likely Gore jumped aboard the internet bandwagon, as he's done with global warming bandwagon, since that is what he does as a politician.

Insofar as AlGore's involvement with the High Performance Computing and Communications Act of 1991, many others assumed a technical leadership role for that effort (based on the existing literature) but they did not later claim they facilitated the internet. Gore did. Hence the hypocrisy.

SecDef said:
He wrote the TCP/IP protocol. He's a geek. Feel free to spend 5 seconds and get off your butt to find out. Here, I'll give you a hand with a link to his wikipedia entry to get you started.

I didn't doubt Vinton Gray Cerf's technical background with my "fiction" statement; that was intended for that part of e-mail I read from MCIWorldCom "puffing" Gore's record in respect to internet. I found that "fictional".
 
Likely Gore jumped aboard the internet bandwagon, as he's done with global warming bandwagon, since that is what he does as a politician.

In 1991 there wasn't really much of an internet "bandwagon." It was still in its infancy, and the public at large certainly didn't know much of anything about it.

I didn't doubt Vinton Gray Cerf's technical background with my "fiction" statement; that was intended for that part of e-mail I read from MCIWorldCom "puffing" Gore's record in respect to internet. I found that "fictional".

I didn't get the impression that that was a press release (or even a correspondence) from MCI WorldCom. It was a correspondence from Vint Cerf and Robert Khan which was sent from a WorldCom address and which gave his current work contact rather than home. Robert Khan doesn't seem to have even been employed by WorldCom at the time.

Insofar as AlGore's involvement with the High Performance Computing and Communications Act of 1991, many others assumed a technical leadership role for that effort (based on the existing literature) but they did not later claim they facilitated the internet. Gore did. Hence the hypocrisy.

So because he claimed credit for something he (along with others) did, while the others did not, that is hypocrisy?

Main Entry: hy·poc·ri·sy
Pronunciation: hi-'pä-kr&-sE also hI-
F1 : a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not; especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion
2 : an act or instance of hypocrisy

inigo_small.jpg


I do not think it means what you think it means...
 
the elite we employ (former or present) do not provide for the middle class any more. they are self-serving(gore included)
 
JuanCarlos said:
So because he claimed credit for something he (along with others) did, while the others did not, that is hypocrisy?

Yes. Gore certainly plays the part well; feigning to be what he is not. He has no technical academic background therefore I fail to see how he could have facilitated any technical effort, with researchers, at DARPA or elsewhere. At the time of ARAPNet, he held no budetary or financial authority in regard to the Pentagon or black programs. About the only thing Gore could have done, and likely did do, was overread or overhear a classified note of ARAPNet's progress - while involved with other Congressional duties - and assume the rest from there. Hypocrisy in what he lated claimed? Absolutely! Par for the course for Al Gore? Certainly!
 
Yes. Gore certainly plays the part well; feigning to be what he is not. He has no technical academic background therefore I fail to see how he could have facilitated any technical effort, with researchers, at DARPA or elsewhere. At the time of ARAPNet, he held no budetary or financial authority in regard to the Pentagon or black programs. About the only thing Gore could have done, and likely did do, was overread or overhear a classified note of ARAPNet's progress - while involved with other Congressional duties - and assume the rest from there. Hypocrisy in what he lated claimed? Absolutely! Par for the course for Al Gore? Certainly!

He never claimed to have been part of the technical effort. And at the time of the High Performance Computing and Communications Act of 1991 he seems to have had a hand in things...and there are roles other than technical leadership that are often necessary to make such things happen. He seems to have played a fairly significant political role in the process, at least at this point in the game. Which is why I responded to the comment below:

Insofar as AlGore's involvement with the High Performance Computing and Communications Act of 1991, many others assumed a technical leadership role for that effort (based on the existing literature) but they did not later claim they facilitated the internet. Gore did. Hence the hypocrisy.

So I ask you to show me anywhere that one of those who assumed a technical leadership role claimed to have facilitated the creation of the modern internet, and Al Gore refuted that claim. Al Gore claimed credit for his part. If others did not feel the need to, more power to them. But that does not make it hypocrisy. You simply use that word because of the connotations it holds and the sway it would have with those who don't fully understand the issue at hand.

You may be able to show hypocrisy elsewhere. Actually, I'll say you can. Most people are hypocritical in one way or another. But your "Hence the hypocrisy" here seems to indicate that you think this statement illustrates some form of hypocrisy.

So again I refer you to my friend Mr. Montoya.
 
JuanCarlos said:
He seems to have played a fairly significant political role in the process

FINALLY! Took me about four posts and five replies to get that posted from you. Now compare that statement above with this:

"During my service in the United States Congress I took the initiative in creating the Internet."

See that word I highlighted? "creating"? Understand what that means? No way, no how, no earthly possibility anything political that Gore did had anything at all to do with "creating" the internet, that he later claimed.

See the seperation?

You understand my point now?
 
No. That's just a weird way of interpreting it.

That ARPANet existed (No idea why you keep saying ARAPNet, makes it look like you are unfamiliar with it) and the Internet is the not en entirely different beast, but it was through the POLITICAL process that it came about that the NSF backbone would tie-in to what later became known as Tier 1 providers (AT&T, MCI, etc). It was the political process that made the Internet different from ARPANet, namely commercial usage, etc.
Without someone taking the role that Gore had, it would have remained a government run, educational only, non-commercial entity.

Vint Cerf is the perfect person to discuss this as he implemented MCI Mail, the first commercial email application on the Internet.

I think your distinction is petty and inaccurate.
 
See that word I highlighted? "creating"? Understand what that means? No way, no how, no earthly possibility anything political that Gore did had anything at all to do with "creating" the internet, that he later claimed.

See the seperation?

You understand my point now?

I understand your point, and I largely responded to it back on page one. At which point I'd say it was simply a poor choice of words, and you're going to great lengths to try and wring as much technical inaccuracy as possible from it due to your bias regarding him.

Here we go, from the previously linked Vint Cerf email, for those that might not have read it:

As far back as the 1970s Congressman Gore promoted the idea of high speed
telecommunications as an engine for both economic growth and the
improvement of our educational system. He was the first elected official
to grasp the potential of computer communications to have a broader impact
than just improving the conduct of science and scholarship. Though easily
forgotten, now, at the time this was an unproven and controversial
concept. Our work on the Internet started in 1973 and was based on even
earlier work that took place in the mid-late 1960s. But the Internet, as we
know it today, was not deployed until 1983. When the Internet was still in
the early stages of its deployment, Congressman Gore provided intellectual
leadership by helping create the vision of the potential benefits of high
speed computing and communication. As an example, he sponsored hearings on
how advanced technologies might be put to use in areas like coordinating
the response of government agencies to natural disasters and other crises.

As a Senator in the 1980s Gore urged government agencies to consolidate
what at the time were several dozen different and unconnected networks into
an "Interagency Network." Working in a bi-partisan manner with officials
in Ronald Reagan and George Bush's administrations, Gore secured the
passage of the High Performance Computing and Communications Act in
1991. This "Gore Act" supported the National Research and Education
Network (NREN) initiative that became one of the major vehicles for the
spread of the Internet beyond the field of computer science.

So, it appears that his advocacy of the idea of "the internet" (before it was known as such) predates the internet as we know it. No, he doesn't seem to have had much of a hand in the creation of the networks that predated the internet. However, it does appear that his advocacy of the idea of "the internet" (before it had such a name) in a political capacity might well have played a role, even an important one, in the transformation of those networks into the modern internet.

Or, since you seem hung up on the whole use of the word "create," the creation of the internet from those networks.

EDIT: Also, what SecDef said. Basically, the only way I can see coming to the conclusion you've come to regarding his statement is if you needed to do so to satisfy some strong pre-existing bias. Which isn't intellectually honest.
 
SecDef said:
Without someone taking the role that Gore had, it would have remained a government run, educational only, non-commercial entity.

So you're alleging that in addition to "creating" the internet, Gore transitioned it to the private sector?

Wow! Just Wow! That's all I have to add here...
 
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