WeedWacker
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That's like saying that Hitler invented the V2 because he funded it.
Al Gore uses 18,400 kWh of electricity per month?
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That's like saying that Hitler invented the V2 because he funded it.
JuanCarlos
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Which, despite a poor choice of phrasing far too many mouthbreathers have been more than happy to jump on top of, is pretty much all Gore was claiming. Well, he was probably claiming a bit more active of a role as a proponent of it in Congress...but still.
So, your point?
EDIT: Note, he doesn't use the word "invent" or "inventing." Also, it should be clear when somebody talks about "taking the initiative in creating" something that was created during their time as a politician, they probably mean the initiative in advocating and funding it. At least to anybody with an above-room-temperature IQ.
EDIT: Hey, SecDef, I didn't tag you in yet.
It wouldn't be such a big deal if a substantial portion of his energy came from nuclear power.
But no, he and his and his vulgar, hypocritical ilk had to defacto ban nuclear power in this country about 25 years ago, and force us to burn filthy coal for our power. Filthy coal that leave vast radioactive waste on the ground after burning, and pours tons of CO2 into the air. And now they want to force us to ride buses to fix a problem they forced us into.
But no, he and his and his vulgar, hypocritical ilk had to defacto ban nuclear power in this country about 25 years ago, and force us to burn filthy coal for our power. Filthy coal that leave vast radioactive waste on the ground after burning, and pours tons of CO2 into the air. And now they want to force us to ride buses to fix a problem they forced us into.
JuanCarlos
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To have what? Gore spends what sounds like an extreme amount of money in order to reduce his overall carbon footprint, despite this apparently high usage of power. Yes, he's wealthy enough that he can afford to do so while still consuming at this rate...but at some point, that's just how capitalism works.
Additionally, he's not expecting every person to reduce their overall carbon footprint to zero...at least not at the moment. It's not economically feasible. He simply advocates doing what you can (more fuel-efficient cars, CFLs instead of incandescents, etc.) and getting the government to encourage making more options economically feasible as well.
A previous post that I think is related:
Yes, I already pointed out how incredibly misinformed that first part was (reading is fun-damental!)...but let's move to the second. If Gore (or anybody else) purchases only (or mostly) "green" power, then regardless of their usage they may still be contributing less to global warming than the average Joe. If my home is powered entirely by solar panels I own, for instance, and I leave my lights on all day long...am I really "wasting" power? Assuming I'm not hooked up to feed back into the grid, that is.
Gore pays an excessive amount of money in addition to what anybody else would pay for such usage to ensure that his energy comes from "green" sources...primarily wind and solar, with a little bit of recaptured methane thrown in. So hard as it might be to believe, it's possible that the greenhouse emissions from his gigantic mansion are similar to or actually less than from my two-bedroom duplex.
So now some of you might be wondering why he wouldn't still want to conserve energy, so that that "green" power could be used elsewhere thus reducing the overall use of "dirty" power. In theory, this makes sense...but often it doesn't quite work that way. Unless there is demand for "green" power (which often costs more, and has a large initial investment involved), the capacity won't be built. So Gore, and people like Gore, who pay for "green" power blocks are actually encouraging the expansion of our "green" power capacity. The best part is that if these people later do start using less (which most are working towards at the same time...such as the renovations being done to Gore's residence), that capacity remains. It's not like coal where you burn X amount of coal today to produce X power at a given time, and you have to do the same tommorow...the additional windmills or solar plants built because of the demand from people buying "green" power blocks keep on producing even after people those stop using them.
You mean that NEW nuclear facilities weren't being built. Obviously there wasn't a ban on existing ones.
The reason for it was because of the even more filthy radioactive waste that was causing massive logistical problems in terms of storage.
Of course, this is a huge mistake. We should be building nuclear power plants like crazy.
Can you point me to where Gore voted against nuclear power or otherwise discouraged it as a Senator? I can't seem to find it.
JuanCarlos
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That, and I imagine that Three Mile Island (and later Chernobyl) turning them into the mother of all NIMBY projects didn't help much. People generally being irrational about such things and all.
Yeah, I'd be interested too. A quick search didn't turn anything up, and I imagine he must have something to back it up other than "he's a dirty, vulgar liberal."
kennybs plbg
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Global warming doesn't matter, we're all on borrowed time now anyway. Are you forgetting Ronnie didn't sign on to the Acid Rain bill back in 1981 and dish out millions of dollars for the cause. His foolishness and stupidity only left us with a projected 10-20 years here on earth.
kenny b
kenny b
WeedWacker
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where do you get those figures kenny?
kennybs plbg
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Memory, I was there. It was laid out as dooms day. Lakes around the world would no longer sustain life, they would all be dead within the next 20 years.
This would lead to our distruction as man.
I kid you not this is what everyone talked about in the late 70's as we waited in line for gas, at least on odd days.
kenny b
This would lead to our distruction as man.
I kid you not this is what everyone talked about in the late 70's as we waited in line for gas, at least on odd days.
kenny b
Playboypenguin
Moderator
Complete bullsh&@
Thi story is complete crap. It is muckracking and political partisanship at it's worst.
They chose a singe month (the hottest of the year) and chose a time when the home was having work done on it.
I flip house for a living and I can tell you that when I am working on a house (running compresors, running power tools, running heat or cooling with doors and window constantly opening or missing, etc) I will use as much power in two months that I do in a whole year in my own home.
This story is just a case of taking select information and turning it into something it isn't and then counting on the fact that most people will not understand the circumstances and that some loud mouths will take this misinformation and run with it without giving thought to what it really is...which is just propaganda.
Thi story is complete crap. It is muckracking and political partisanship at it's worst.
They chose a singe month (the hottest of the year) and chose a time when the home was having work done on it.
I flip house for a living and I can tell you that when I am working on a house (running compresors, running power tools, running heat or cooling with doors and window constantly opening or missing, etc) I will use as much power in two months that I do in a whole year in my own home.
This story is just a case of taking select information and turning it into something it isn't and then counting on the fact that most people will not understand the circumstances and that some loud mouths will take this misinformation and run with it without giving thought to what it really is...which is just propaganda.
Does that answer it for you. They ran the Al Gore story pretty much non-stop on foxnews last night. He basically uses 20x the national average rate of electricity. I understand him having a bigger home but using 20x more? The excuses that are being given is that he devotes so much of his time and resources to getting the word out about global warming. I'm sorry but that doesn't fly. President Bush many times does his business from his ranch and he doesn't use any electricity at all. Like I said, Al Gore has plenty of resources and given his stance on the issue I would think it would be him not using electricity as opposed to Bush. I'm not a particularly green but I try to reduce the amount of electricity I use, mainly just to reduce by electricity and gas bill.
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/04/12/press.column/index.html
You my friend are in complete contradiction of yourself. At first you said that Senators and Vice Presidents don't have excessive salaries yet later you say that he is wealthy and therefore can use as much electricity as he wants. I do believe in lowering electricity consumption and protecting the environment. I just think that you should live by what you say. Look at the great leaders of the past. They were respected because they did what they said and lived by what they preached. Gore isn't doing this.
I'm an avid outdoorsman and it truly is a painful sight to see trash out in the woods but Al Gore is a hypocrite. Are you telling me that Senators don't get extremely generous gifts by lobbyists? It happens on both sides Republican or Democrat. The political world is made up of politicians and lobbyists. Everybody is represented by lobbyists who give generous donations in the hopes that their favorite candidate will win. If Al Gore simply wants to tell people to conserve energy and reduce pollution by all means I would even support him. Its when he ties it to global warming that I have a problem with it. Saying that global warming is the cause of recent hurricane activity is nonsense. The temperature has increased less than one degree C over the last 100 years and most of the increase was before the 1940s. Many scientists actually say that after the 1960s the world was actually cooling. The Leipzig Declaration is a declaration of over 100 scientists and climatologists who are on opposition to the fact that the world is warming to begin with. You can't prove that humans are the cause or a major contributor of global warming when you can't even prove that the world is warming to begin with.
I'm an avid outdoorsman and it truly is a painful sight to see trash out in the woods but Al Gore is a hypocrite. Are you telling me that Senators don't get extremely generous gifts by lobbyists? It happens on both sides Republican or Democrat. The political world is made up of politicians and lobbyists. Everybody is represented by lobbyists who give generous donations in the hopes that their favorite candidate will win. If Al Gore simply wants to tell people to conserve energy and reduce pollution by all means I would even support him. Its when he ties it to global warming that I have a problem with it. Saying that global warming is the cause of recent hurricane activity is nonsense. The temperature has increased less than one degree C over the last 100 years and most of the increase was before the 1940s. Many scientists actually say that after the 1960s the world was actually cooling. The Leipzig Declaration is a declaration of over 100 scientists and climatologists who are on opposition to the fact that the world is warming to begin with. You can't prove that humans are the cause or a major contributor of global warming when you can't even prove that the world is warming to begin with.
JuanCarlos
New member
No, it doesn't answer it. They use geothermal to heat and cool, and are independent of the grid. Got it. But they do use electricity, I assume. Bush has conducted business from the ranch, and that generally requires being able to plug the occasional thing in. So it's solar or wind produced on site, correct?
Well guess what: most of Gore's energy is produced by solar or wind as well. Why does it matter whether he own the turbines or panels, or if he simply pays extra to the power company for similar "clean" power? Same net effect, right?
So 20x more, right? You seem stuck on that number. Well, first we have to consider that his house is 4x-5x the size of the average house. So really he's only using 4x of the "average" for a similarly-sized dwelling. Both he and his wife have home offices, which I assume means more than a computer at a desk (for folks like them it may well mean independent fax machine(s), copier(s), possibly even some sort of server setup on their LAN). Then you take into account additional security considerations, given that he is both the ex-vice-president, a former presidential candidate, and generally high-profile guy. At 20 rooms, does he have a live-in staff? Because they would cause "him" to consume more energy than the "average" as well. Plus construction and renovations, which consume additional energy...possibly lots of it.
Add all this up, and you'd probably still find his energy usage is a bit excessive. Which he then compensates for by paying a ton of extra money to ensure it comes from "green" sources.. Al Gore has never said we need to stop using power...he has said we need to use it in environmentally sustainable ways. The main reason power conservation right now is such a huge deal is because so much of our power is produced by burning things....he pays a premium to make sure the bulk of his does not come from such methods.
I've already typed all this. You get it or you don't.
Oh, and they ran the Gore story all night on Fox News? Ya don't say? I'm *shocked*. Do you know why they ran the story all night on Fox News? Because A) Fox News has a blatant conservative bias, and B) the story appears very cut and dry on the surface, so it will easily convince people who don't know any better, and thus makes excellent partisan propaganda. If the bulk of your knowledge on this subject comes from what you've gleaned from Fox News (really, any television news) then honestly I shouldn't even bother replying to you.
Yes, he is living by what he preaches. He doesn't solely preach "less energy consumption." He talks about reducing carbon emissions, and overall carbon footprint. For most people, that's probably going to involve some sort of conservation...for him, he can afford to pay the extra for "green" power and he's currently investing in solar panels to both reduce his use of grid power and create additional overall solar capacity. How is this not practicing what he preaches?
As far as him being wealthy goes, and me supposedly "contradicting" myself...um, no. I said that his salary, both as a Senator and VP, was not excessive. It wasn't. It was in response to somebody mentioning our "employees" making too much money, and I'm of the opinion that low-end six-figure salaries are reasonable for the people we have running our country.
Now, he is quite wealthy. Part of that is due to the sheer number of years he collected fairly high salaries (six-figure salaries over decades add up...to millions, actually). I'm guessing some portion is from either his family or Tipper's. Part from wise investment, part from such things as speaking engagements as former VP/Presidential candidate or being on various boards. And that's before you get to the pretty big chunk he's probably made for An Inconvenient Truth. Oh, and possibly a couple small gifts from lobbyists along the way, which compared to his overall wealth are insignificant.
So, the portion of that he made as "our employee" is, I think reasonable. His federal salary wasn't particularly excessive. The fact that he's been able to use that position to since make even more money is just the way the cookie crumbles...if you're jealous, run for office.
EDIT: In conclusion, just so you know, here is what I take away from this story. Al Gore, despite being a huge environmental advocate, has only managed to reduce his carbon footprint to almost nothing, and has probably the same (or slightly less) net impact on the environment as the average American...though still significantly less than most Americans of similar levels of wealth. Wow. Color me outraged.
Silver Bullet
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Nobody was laughing at his message, just at him.
Just because the oil companies were conscientious enough to do their own investigation, doesn’t make their message any less valid.
There ! That’s an example of a properly applied “any less valid” comment. See the difference ?
Blowing the cover off the global warming scam
Excellent analogy ! In more ways than one, considering Gore’s gun-banning past.
He can run, but he can't hide
Here's an easy one. People are getting downright crazy over this, and I'm sure I'll get flamed too! 
How about, you guys ready?....drum roll..... He just practices what he preaches. Very simple. If you want people to listen to you start being a role model. He isn't a role model. I dont care what he's doing to fix the problem. The fact is he's DOING it.
I mean, would you let Ted "I wasn't driving drunk that night" kennedy lecture you about honesty? or, better yet, Consuming alcohol in AA responsible manor?
Come on Juan, I know you have a retort. Hit me.
How about, you guys ready?....drum roll..... He just practices what he preaches. Very simple. If you want people to listen to you start being a role model. He isn't a role model. I dont care what he's doing to fix the problem. The fact is he's DOING it. I mean, would you let Ted "I wasn't driving drunk that night" kennedy lecture you about honesty? or, better yet, Consuming alcohol in AA responsible manor?
Come on Juan, I know you have a retort. Hit me.
invention_45
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You don't have a problem with people being rich in America, do you?
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